Passenger Trains > Hoosier State in September

It was another good month with ridership up 46% over the previous September and revenue up 64%.  Both were the best performance of any state-supported route, and additionally, INDOT advised last week that Hoosier achieved the #1 ranking for customer service of any state-supported route.  So we still have a long way to go but it sure is nice to have the numbers going in the right direction.  October is starting off strong, and I was on a train recently that was sold out in coach with 20 or so in business class, smiles all around.....

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That very good news to hear. Nice to see a private sector doing very well.

Any news is good news.  Congrats! 

Supposedly Washington State is looking at private operators to restore service between Seattle and Spokane via Stampede Pass. Hint Hint =)

I was hoping the 2 dis-used Talgos would have gone to Stampede Pass service than to Surfliners.

Gee, Wiz, even I might check out this service in my home state... (I'm still not an Amtrak fan.)

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com

wabash2800 Wrote:
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> Gee, Wiz, even I might check out this service in
> my home state... (I'm still not an Amtrak fan.)
>
> Victor A. Baird
> http://www.erstwhilepublications.com

​Go Business class.  You will not be disappointed.

Great news!  My daughter and my mom rode the train coming back from the west coast on October 7 and enjoyed Business Class.  My daughter had also ridden the train coming back from NM in September in Business Class as well.  Keep up the great work!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/16 19:37 by Indiana_Trainman.

Congratulations!

Posted from Android

Wasn't INDOT going to report the revenue, ridership, and cost performance of this train monthly when the program began? Is that report out there anywhere?

The August C-1 YTD report from Amtrak showed a small yearly profit for the service, which is of course after the state payment. What is the upside split between parties?

 

Great news.  Good to hear that even with an upgrade in service levels, the service is successful.  I was really wondering how it was going to make it at first with all of the many problems that first month or two.  You just need to extend that down the LIRC to Louisville.  Oh well, maybe someday.

John

Macster Wrote:
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> Supposedly Washington State is looking at private operators to restore service between Seattle and Spokane via Stampede Pass. Hint Hint =)

If they are, it's not mentioned in their State Rail Plan, though I would defer to a local (like TAW) who might know more.  While there's local enthusiasm in the Yakima Valley for passenger rail, it will be a long time before anything happens, if ever.  BNSF says they will not do anything on Stampede Pass until they receive a proposal from Amtrak.  It may not be a PTC route, either.  Article from the Yakima Herald:

Yakima Valley passenger rail advocacy

I would think the first step would be corridor service between Seattle/Portland and Spokane over the existing routes, as the biggest complaint in eastern Washington is the middle-of-the-night train times at Spokane on the Empire Builder.

In the meantime, let's hope for more good news on the Hoosier State.  A successful example of private operation will open a lot of doors.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/16 22:27 by illini73.

What about the upcoming Thanksgiving holiday?
Would CSX allow you to run an extra section as a charter later on Wednesday for the Purdue students?
Depart Lafayette @ Noon, and you would clean up!  That would lead to a really big train on Sunday's return train too!
 

Excellent, Ed.  Great news.  Good for passenger service in general.

Congratulations to Ed Ellis and his dedicated team. Sure is nice to reaffirm that good service and nice equipment do equal positive customer reception and growing patronage. Let's hope despite all the challenges that this will continue to grow into a success story with enough kudos so that all the players get some of the credit and that leads to other green shoots !!

   With Amtrak now headed up by a real railroader (who has shown over a long and very successful career) that he is willing to think creatively,...... who knows what might be possible !! 

    IMHO- Ross Rowland

Oh I wish eee would take over the Cardinal.

illini73 Wrote:
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> Macster Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Supposedly Washington State is looking at
> private operators to restore service between
> Seattle and Spokane via Stampede Pass. Hint Hint
> =)
>
> If they are, it's not mentioned in their State
> Rail Plan, though I would defer to a local (like
> TAW) who might know more.  While there's local
> enthusiasm in the Yakima Valley for passenger
> rail, it will be a long time before anything
> happens, if ever.

I don't know what current plans or even dreams are. I worked on a feasibility study for Seattle - Pasco - Spokane service in 1999. Yes, there was a lot of enthusiasm and desire over east of the mountains. There were some folks who were sure it was as simple as buying a train and put it on the layout. The Legislature was interested and directed DOT to find out.

My printed copy is exactly somewhere in a storage unit. It appears that only some of the work files have made it through a 17 year trail of several computers and external hard drives and crashing and theft. I'm sure that the report is somewhere in the WSDOT files. Here's a synopsis from memory.

The NP over Stampede Pass was restored enough to run trains over it. That's it. It's a turkey trail with new track. Sidings are too far apart for more than 8 trains a day. The year it opened, I helped a UW student work through his Masters thesis addressing capacity of that line. If I remember correctly, he came up with 8, or 12 at the outside. I did one job for WSDOT some years ago in which some advocacy group hired someone to develop their plan. Those folks came up with 32 trains a day capacity from out of the sky somewhere. They claim that they got it from BNSF. I can't imagine who at BNSF would produce a figure like that, but the myth has stuck. The line is Track Warrant with "islands of CTC,"  which means that the sidings have power switches. In my opinion, that arrangement is inherently hazardous, and I said so in the report. In the era of Instant Experts on the trains and in the dispatching office and borderline or more excessive dispatcher workload, the chance of a mistake when authority between sidings is paper and the authority between switches is signals is just too great.

Minimum Headway is a capacity term related to how close following trains can run. Highest utilization of a single track line occurs when trains alternate directions between sidings, except in rare cases in which fleeting works. Minimum headway on a single track line is basically twice the longest running time between sidings. For Stampede Pass, that's about two hours. Practical capacity is about half of that. That comes down to a practical capacity of about 8 trains a day. Yeah, more can be out there, but delays can be monumental and reliability infinitesimal. That's not a good environment for passenger trains. Folks always, to make another use of a popular colloquialism, play the fleeting card. OK, fine, I did too. I was out there on a hyrail one day. Between Pasco and Auburn, there were four trains and a hyrail. The dispatcher was buried. I don't remember for sure, but I think I worked out four dispatcher districts dedicated to Auburn-Pasco to handle the mythical 32 trains a day. Maybe it was three.

In order to run a viable passenger service between Auburn and Pasco, the line needs (as far as I'm concerned) CTC and many more sidings. I think the request was two trips a day, if I remember correctly. That come out to over 350 gigabucks of 1999 money if I remember correctly. That was in the same era as estimating that the current Point Defiance Bypass project could be done for 75 gigabucks, so I would expect a lot more for Stampede Pass.

For as much money as BNSF has poured into Pasco - Spokane, it's still full, even with traffic down. More passenger service between Pasco and Spokane would cost somewhere between A Lot and More Than That (adjusted for inflation).

At the time, the legislature decided that the idea was appealing, but they would rather concentrate what funding they could scrape up into one corridor with good service rather than two with bad service.

None of this has been any official position of WSDOT or the legislature. It is what I remember of the work I did for WSDOT 17 years ago, which I'm sure could be resurrected from a dusty archive if someone had the inclination.

> BNSF says they will not do
> anything on Stampede Pass until they receive a
> proposal from Amtrak.  It may not be a PTC route,
> either.

After all that, adding PTC is inconsequential.


> I would think the first step would be corridor
> service between Seattle/Portland and Spokane over
> the existing routes, as the biggest complaint in
> eastern Washington is the middle-of-the-night
> train times at Spokane on the Empire Builder.

The Gorge is pretty much full. Stevens Pass is pretty much full. Yeah, traffic comes and goes, but for even one additional passenger train that is reliable (required for viable service), both railroads are inadequate.

That's my off duty professional opinion recalling my on duty professional opinion of 17 years ago.

TAW



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/16 15:15 by TAW.

Spokane - Pasco: If the existing line is so jammed , why did BN get rid of the SP&S ? They were once run as a directional railroads.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> Spokane - Pasco: If the existing line is so jammed
> , why did BN get rid of the SP&S ? They were once
> run as a directional railroads.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3374585,3374585#msg-3374585

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?18,3354765,page=1

TAW

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> Oh I wish eee would take over the Cardinal.

You are not the only one. The one caveat I have is that it avoids the NEC and Sunnyside Yard. Amtrak is likely to charge an arm and a leg for access to the NEC and storage at Sunnyside. Thus that means it originates and terminates - once again - in Washington DC. It CAN be done. It HAS been done - orginating and terminating in Washington DC that is. It would cool to run it like the how the former VIA Rail Ocean ran - short dome for coach passengers, and "end dome" for sleeper passengers. Otherwise, I guess it would have to be a full length dome in the middle of the consist. Being that the Viewliners CONSTANTLY sell out on the Cardinal's route, turnover multiple times, and generally have descent coach numbers I would think this would have some merit. Vacation packages to Whilte Sulpher Springs and our nation's capitol should be able to make the train very attractive. And if people want to continue to NYC or other NEC destinations - coordinate a "cross-platform" change of trains. The scenery is the marketing alone, and being onboard the train would just complete the nostalgic journey. Meal service I am sure would be top notch - and something this train desperately needs (it's definitely a 3 meal train if originating or terminating in Washington DC).

Amtrak would then have four Viewliners sleepers to re-distribute. Cardinal runs with two Viewliners in peak season and there are two train sets. Make it the best long distance train to get a meal!

Hey - one can dream right?