Passenger Trains > Why does Amtrak's Southwest Chief not use the Santa Fe anymore?

Good Morning. I was wondering why Amtrak's Southwest Chief no longer uses the Chillicothe Subdivsion east of Cameron,Il. May anyone please tell me why this is the case about the Southwest Chief's reroute to the Chicago & Mendota subs?

The railroad wanted Amtrak out of the way of its intermodal trains especially in the area of the Willow Springs yard.

It allows Amtrak to have only one station in Galesburg to staff and maintain. In the old days there were two stations that were about a mile apart in Galesburg.

There is really very little reason for Amtrak to take the old Sante Fe. There are not towns along that route that can't be served on Amtrak from Galesburg, Mendota, or Pontiac/Dwight.

The move also had three other *benefits*, two for Amtrak and one for BNSF:

Amtrak was able to consolidate all activity in Galesburg at the depot on the ex-CB&Q instead of having to maintain two separate stations on the former Santa Fe (GBA) and BN/CB&Q (GBB).

Amtrak was able to replace the suburban Chicago stop in Joliet (where long-term parking can be an issue) with one in the much-more-upscale suburb of Naperville (where long-term parking is also an issue but the passengers have more disposable income).

BNSF was able to abandon a short section of main track between 21st St and Ash St., which was not used by freights. This also made it nearly impossible to put passenger trains back on the ex-Santa Fe east of Galesburg (Cameron, actually).

NZ

I remember that abandoning the short stretch of track in Chicago was the stated reason at the time, or Amtrak would have had to take full control, ownership, and maintenance of it. BNSF built that connection west of Galesburg, and they wasted no time in tearing down the Santa Fe depot, which was basically a 1950's/1960's box.

Another advantantage for Amtrak is that the current route is 15 miles shorter than the old ATSF route and this allows for somewhat faster speedy schedules between Chicago and Galesburg. This only applies to passenger trains.

Sneebly

Don't forget it created only one route for Amtrak crews. No need to have crews qualified on separate routes.

OK... Im a trackwork kinda person. I know where galesburg and chicago are. haha. Can someone give a better explanation of all this? And when did this change happen?

I mean I can figure that the SF and CBQ kinda parallalled each other from Chgo to GB, but other than that, Im clueless. What were the tracks from ash st to 21st st? what did it connect? All I remember from riding the Amtk Zephyr years ago, is that there's this monster sized crossover out in the fields west of chicago somewhere, that seemed to be between to parallal lines, that were maybe a quarter mile apart. Is that the trackage were are talking about? prob not, but I always found that thing interesting, and still have no idea what it connects, and why it was built.

TIA

pdt Wrote:
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> OK... Im a trackwork kinda person. I know where
> galesburg and chicago are. haha. Can someone give
> a better explanation of all this? And when did
> this change happen?
>
> I mean I can figure that the SF and CBQ kinda
> parallalled each other from Chgo to GB, but other
> than that, Im clueless. What were the tracks from
> ash st to 21st st? what did it connect? All I
> remember from riding the Amtk Zephyr years ago, is
> that there's this monster sized crossover out in
> the fields west of chicago somewhere, that seemed
> to be between to parallal lines, that were maybe a
> quarter mile apart. Is that the trackage were are
> talking about? prob not, but I always found that
> thing interesting, and still have no idea what it
> connects, and why it was built.
>
> TIA

The April 1996 Amtrak timetable still showed the Southwest Chief on the Santa Fe route east of Galesburg. The November 1996 timetable shows it on the now routing. The crossover you're talking about is Cameron where the BN (ex-CB&Q) and Santa Fe crossed. Santa Fe passed over the BN on an overpass. After the lines merged, a connection was built at this site. It not only allowed freight traffic to diverge from the various routes, it also allowed the Southwest Chief to move off the Santa Fe and onto the BN for the trip to Chicago, and vise versa. I don't have any information about the short piece of trackage in Chicago.

Kim Heusel



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/17 10:47 by KimHeusel.

yeah but it misses a terminal for Peoria riders at Chillicothe illinois and also pics up streator and joliet.

The abandoned piece of track in Chicago was how ATSF passenger trains traveled between the entrance to Corwith Yard and downtown Chicago. At the end, the only trains using it were Amtrak #3 and #4, so when those were rerouted via the Race Track, that section was ripped up.

Railfan2 Wrote:
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> yeah but it misses a terminal for Peoria riders at
> Chillicothe illinois and also pics up streator and
> joliet.

If people in Peoria could get to Chillicothe, they can get to Galesburg. It might cost significantly more if that's via taxi cab, but so be it.

> The April 1996 Amtrak timetable still showed the
> Southwest Chief on the Santa Fe route east of
> Galesburg. The November 1996 timetable shows it on
> the now routing. The crossover you're talking
> about is Cameron where the BN (ex-CB&Q) and Santa
> Fe crossed. Santa Fe passed over the BN on an
> overpass. After the lines merged, a connection was
> built at this site. It not only allowed freight
> traffic to diverge from the various routes, it
> also allowed the Southwest Chief to move off the
> Santa Fe and onto the BN for the trip to Chicago,
> and vise versa. I don't have any information about
> the short piece of trackage in Chicago.

The connection was very important for freight since BN had an expanded hump yard in Galesburg. The existing connection from the ATSF to the BN, if I remember right, was tight (legs of wyes) and round about.

kbmiflyer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It allows Amtrak to have only one station in
> Galesburg to staff and maintain. In the old days
> there were two stations that were about a mile
> apart in Galesburg.
>
> There is really very little reason for Amtrak to
> take the old Sante Fe. There are not towns along
> that route that can't be served on Amtrak from
> Galesburg, Mendota, or Pontiac/Dwight.

Pontiac and Dwight are on the St. Louis line. Perhaps you mean Kewanee or Princeton?

sums007 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kbmiflyer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It allows Amtrak to have only one station in
> > Galesburg to staff and maintain. In the old
> days
> > there were two stations that were about a mile
> > apart in Galesburg.
> >
> > There is really very little reason for Amtrak
> to
> > take the old Sante Fe. There are not towns
> along
> > that route that can't be served on Amtrak from
> > Galesburg, Mendota, or Pontiac/Dwight.
>
> Pontiac and Dwight are on the St. Louis line.
> Perhaps you mean Kewanee or Princeton?

I presumed he was suggesting the St. Louis Line stops as closer alternatives for passengers formerly using Streator, although to get to/from the Southwest Chief using them you'd need to change trains in Chicago, which might be inferior to just driving up I-39 to Mendota/Princeton (the latter via I-80).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/17 14:05 by toledopatch.

sums007 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kbmiflyer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > There is really very little reason for Amtrak to
> > take the old Sante Fe. There are not towns along
> > that route that can't be served on Amtrak from
> > Galesburg, Mendota, or Pontiac/Dwight.
>
> Pontiac and Dwight are on the St. Louis line.
> Perhaps you mean Kewanee or Princeton?

That would be Princeton.

When I regularly volunteered as a caretaker for 4 on Saturdays at Lawrence, I made it a point to announce all of the destinations served by 4 going east from Lawrence.

"Now arriving on the Main Track, Amtrak #4, the Southwest Chief, eastbound for Kansas City, La Plata, Fort Madison, Galesburg, Princeton, Mendota, Naperville, and Chicago. Please remain behind the yellow line until the train has come to a full and complete stop. Please have your ticket and a Photo ID ready for the conductor. No visitors aboard the train - if you get on board without a ticket, you will be going to Kansas City."

Richie Kennedy
Lawrence, KS
route56.com

pdt Wrote:
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> What were the tracks from ash st to 21st st?

Here's a picture taken at "Ash St." about 18 months ago (6-sep-2015), looking west. The two east-west tracks are the Illinois Central Iowa Division (now CN). The transmission line is on the former Santa Fe right-of-way, and the signal bridge in the distance to the left of it marks the current east end of the BNSF line. The line originally continued on east paralleling the IC as far as Bridgeport, where these two lines, as well as the Alton/GM&O/ICG (now CN) line from Joliet and St. Louis, merged to cross a two-track drawbridge over a watercourse known locally as "Bubbly Creek" (officially the South Fork of the South Branch of the Chicago River).

At the east end of the draw, the lines fanned back out into six tracks, GM&O on the north, IC in the middle, and Santa Fe on the South as far as 21st St. After April 30, 1971 all Amtrak trains used the GM&O tracks to 21st St. where they entered Chicago Union Station Co. trackage, leaving the Santa Fe tracks unused. The CTA's "Orange Line" to Midway Airport was later built on the Santa Fe alignment as far as Bridgeport.

An unsolved mystery: How did "Ash St." get its name? There is no such street in Chicago.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/17 20:24 by illini73.

---

illini73 Wrote:
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>
> An unsolved mystery: How did "Ash St." get its
> name? There is no such street in Chicago.

Original name for S Artesian Ave. block west of Western.

TAW

OK...another question...I went on Google Earth. At the north end of what they call "Corwith Intermodal Facility", which im assuming is ATSF corwith yard, there is a track that connects with the CN ex ICG (i think ex GMO) that goes thru brighton jct and to 21st st. And there is a connection just north of there to the NS/ ex N&W line that also goes to 21st jct and on to Union station. So it is possible for a passenger train to travel the SF east from Galesburg and get to Union Station. The tracks might not be suitable at some point, but it is possible. The SF tracks from Ash St to 21 st, were just paralleling 2 other lines, so kinda redundant anyway, even if amtk wanted to stay on the SF routing (not that there was any reason to) Yes? No?

There are too many different ways to get to the same place in chicago. Its very confusing.. And this is after a lot of redundant tracks have been torn out....

ps....where does the St Charles air line end up, going east or west. and who owns, or owned it? Any passenger trains use it regularly. I thought it ended up being the IC line thru rockford, if u went west, but IDK... (and who owns that line now, and whre does it go, etc etc...blah, blah.) Its hard to find a concie history of al the rail lines in chicago, and their present status and usage.

pdt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK...another question...I went on Google Earth.
> At the north end of what they call "Corwith
> Intermodal Facility", which im assuming is ATSF
> corwith yard, there is a track that connects with
> the CN ex ICG (i think ex GMO) that goes thru
> brighton jct and to 21st st.

I believe there has been a time or two where CHI-STL
trains have used that connection to detour over the ex-ATSF
between Corwith and Joliet U.S. A connection like that can
only be used in an emergency because seesawing a passenger
train through the throat of a busy freight yard is something to
be avoided.

The logical move for a passenger train off the ATSF at Joliet to CUS
would now be to use the crossovers at Joliet to access the ex-GM&O and
use the GM&O route. This is never going to happen on a regular basis so it is fruitless to
discuss it. Wasn't there some big project on the ex-Q a few years ago that
caused Amtrak to combine 3 and 5 and send them over the GM&O to Joliet
and then the ATSF to GBB? As I recall there were hours worth of delay by the
time it was all over.


And there is a
> connection just north of there to the NS/ ex N&W
> line that also goes to 21st jct and on to Union

Trains would just stay on the GM&O route into CUS. Is the
connection you are referring to 21st St, or do you see something else?


So it is possible for a passenger train
> to travel the SF east from Galesburg and get to
> Union Station. The tracks might not be suitable
> at some point, but it is possible.

Yes.

The SF tracks
> from Ash St to 21 st, were just paralleling 2
> other lines, so kinda redundant anyway, even if
> amtk wanted to stay on the SF routing (not that
> there was any reason to) Yes? No?


When the new connections in the northwest quadrant of Ash St are
complete there will be a connection between the ATSF and ex-IC Iowa Line
which could also be used to access CUS via Bridgeport and 21st St. But this
territory is no longer a passenger train environment. Be glad you have a passenger
train over what parts of the ATSF is still used.

Link to IC timetable. On top left column of page 9 you can see that IC also could use
ATSF tracks between 21st St. and Ash St.
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,4212143,4212801#msg-4212801
>
> There are too many different ways to get to the
> same place in chicago. Its very confusing.. And
> this is after a lot of redundant tracks have been
> torn out....

You would have fit in well with the "Men Who Made Love to the Railroads" in the 1980's who
did not see a foot of track that they did not want to rip out. Part of the problems Chicago now has.
>
> ps....where does the St Charles air line end up,
> going east or west. and who owns, or owned it?
> Any passenger trains use it regularly. I thought
> it ended up being the IC line thru rockford, if u
> went west, but IDK... (and who owns that line
> now, and whre does it go, etc etc...blah, blah.)
> Its hard to find a concie history of al the rail
> lines in chicago, and their present status and
> usage.

Go to Google Books and search for "History of the St. Charles Air Line Railroad in Chicago".
You will find a book commissioned by the IC. Then you will not have to depend on all the silly
railfan stories about its history. The best one I heard in the 70's was that the name came from
some old lady in St. Charles who owned the railroad.

IC profile showing ATSF tracks between 21st St. and Corwith here:
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,4212176,4212202#msg-4212202



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/17 06:00 by Englewood.