Passenger Trains > Why doesn't Calif. speak up (on new cars)

It's a complete mystery to me why California hasn't said a word about the failure of Nippon to deliver the 40 cars they ordered for the Pacific Surfliners (part of the Chicago-St. Louis order} - now 4 years late.

You might think, with Siemens located in the State, they might re-place the order with them.

Would California fans care to venture a guess? I have no idea! Normally, California is very pro-rail.

I believe Illinois is the lead agency, and I would suspect there is some agreement in place that Illinois handles it and California is just along for the ride. My guess is California is legally bound to keep its mouth shut or face legal action. Would seem like a pretty standard NDA to me.

Nick

Pretty much a standard tag on order where the terms are somewhat dictated by the one who they are dealing with not the manufacture. Quite common with transit industy.

I can't believe there is not an escape clause -- especially for non-performance by the builder.

I would have expected Calif. to have filed a law suite claiming breach of contract or something - in addition to claiming financial damages for loss of business to the Surfliner route caused by this non-delivery.

Instead we get a four year silence. Maybe Calif. really doesn't want the cars.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/17 08:11 by ronald321.

Siemens built the small order of Brightline coaches, and just finished the Red set. Maybe 20 coaches?

Maybe CA could tag on a 50 coaches addition with low level traps?

Posted from Android

ronald321 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would have expected Calif. to have filed a law
> suite claiming breach of contract or something -
> in addition to claiming financial damages for loss
> of business to the Surfliner route caused by this
> non-delivery.
>
> Instead we get a four year silence. Maybe Calif.
> really doesn't want the cars.

Good call on judging by deeds, not by talk.

We get plenty of talk here in California, and I'm glad you're calling it out. This might sound far-fetched, but "pro-rail" folks had to pretend they were "all in" on CA HSR, so they have to focus on the "bigger" project, instead of "wasting" resources on non-HSR stuff like Surfliner cars. The timing of Tiger VIII grants last year speaks volumes about how non-HSR rail projects in the state got the money only after CA HSR interests got their funding first.

It would appear that nobody nationwide is saying anything.

cchan nailed it... CA HSR hell or high-water... We may get two of the three.

It appears that the anti-HSR people are blaming HSR for the apparent failure of California officials to follow up the delivery of the order for convential cars. I am concerned with the apparent lack of follow up, but there is nothing to indicate the lack of follow up is related HSR.
Tw

Another thing that bothers me about this -- why in the hell hasn't the rail press (Railway Age, Trains Mag. etc.), interviewed Nippon and asked them to explain what went wrong with this car order.

Why all this dead silence - considering we are talking about a multi-million dollar order that can't be delivered? Especially when these cars are so badly needed. What is everyone trying to hide that demands such silence?

John Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It appears that the anti-HSR people are blaming
> HSR for the apparent failure of California
> officials to follow up the delivery of the order
> for convential cars. I am concerned with the
> apparent lack of follow up, but there is nothing
> to indicate the lack of follow up is related HSR.
> Tw

You can replace the letters HSR with politics, politicians and their agenda, if you wish. Or here's a speculation to think about. If the Nippon Sharyo cars were for the CA HSR, I doubt we would have had the same silence. We would have been subjected to deafening roars from politicians and the media demanding the crush test failures be resolved ASAP.

Big article in the WSJ about this last year.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/delays-may-derail-stimulus-funding-for-amtrak-railcars-1460308921

Start sending emails to the officials noted in the article and let use know what you find out!

Did we change topics or are these related? This article talks about the change in double-deck car requirements:

"Nippon Sharyo’s car hasn’t been able to pass a federally mandated test for absorbing rear- and front-end compression force generated in a crash."

We had a thread recently about how this new requirement has never been met before.

PacificElectric1961 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Big article in the WSJ about this last year.
>
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/delays-may-derail-sti
> mulus-funding-for-amtrak-railcars-1460308921
>
> Start sending emails to the officials noted in the
> article and let use know what you find out!

Didn't Nippon-Sharyo lay off many / most of its employees?

Posted from Android

The Nippon Sharyo story is in these two threads, one recent one not so recent:

Date: 05/10/17 09:40
Nippon Sharyo Bilevels: Not Looking Good
Author: kevink

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,4291097,4291165#msg-4291165

Date: 09/04/15 15:53
Bilevel car for CA/IL/MI/MO trains flunks test
Author: GenePoon

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,3834735,page=1

>"Nippon Sharyo’s car hasn’t been able to pass a federally mandated test for absorbing rear- and front-end compression force generated in a crash."

That was crew-safety crumple zone test for the double-deck cab cars, not the coaches. My industry sources tell me that Nippon Sharyo decided to exit the carbuilding industry because of it.

Ridiculous government stipulatons / specifications for crush strength = failure of the cars getting built.  Now what bureaucrat is going to admit that they failed, and it's their fault?  None.  So they go dead quiet and avoid looking like idiots.  So, so, so dumb.  They need to be reasonable, vs. autocratic.

EtoinShrdlu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> That was crew-safety crumple zone test for the
> double-deck cab cars, not the coaches. My industry
> sources tell me that Nippon Sharyo decided to exit
> the carbuilding industry because of it.

In regards to the contract, who is going to pick the dead mouse up by the tail and throw it out of the kitchen?

Probably go out for bid and then the lowest bid gets the contract, eventually.
Great visual though.

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> EtoinShrdlu Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > That was crew-safety crumple zone test for the
> > double-deck cab cars, not the coaches. My
> industry
> > sources tell me that Nippon Sharyo decided to
> exit
> > the carbuilding industry because of it.
>
> In regards to the contract, who is going to pick
> the dead mouse up by the tail and throw it out of
> the kitchen?

I am hearing some rumors about California might be making a comment or something.
about this order at the end of this month.

I think they should have gone with Alstom. They did a great job with the Surfliner Cars.

EtoinShrdlu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >"Nippon Sharyo’s car hasn’t been able to pass
> a federally mandated test for absorbing rear- and
> front-end compression force generated in a crash."
>
>
> That was crew-safety crumple zone test for the
> double-deck cab cars, not the coaches. My industry
> sources tell me that Nippon Sharyo decided to exit
> the carbuilding industry because of it.

Jerry Martin
Los Angeles, CA
Central Coast Railroad Festival