Passenger Trains > Amtrak 501: engineer interviewed

Story says the engineer and qualifying conductor were interviewed in the last week.


http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2018/01/amtrak_engineer_says_he_misjud.html#incart_target2box_default_#incart_target2box_targeted_

Posted from Android

In a world where NO ONE seems to take personal responsibility, he does. A new approach.

Ed

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/25/amtrak-engineer-missed-speed-limit-signs-before-deadly-derailment-in-washington-ntsb-says.html

Posted from Android

I know many of the comments online focused on lack of GPS screen but what caught my eye was the lack of training on the southbound route-ONE trip. How many of us know all of the signs on a drive route that we do often, let alone once? I know the Engineer will get most of the flack, but I hope the NTSB insists on more in-depth experience on a route before letting someone control a train in the future and that management gets that message.

"The engineer, a 55-year-old man who has yet to be officially identified, told investigators he had made as many as 13 qualifying trips down the track before the inaugural run with paying passengers."

So much for the "not enough qualifying trips" cop out.

Humans are just that, humans. Capable of incredible moments of shit togetherness, which is the norm. Unfortunately, they also make mistakes.

Anyone who has any time in the right hand seat has made mistakes. Fortunately, they rarely have such disastrous results.

I tip my hat to him for his honesty. That couldn't have been an easy thing to do.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/18 12:42 by RRBadTrack.

RRBadTrack Wrote:
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> "The engineer, a 55-year-old man who has yet to be
> officially identified, told investigators he had
> made as many as 13 qualifying trips down the track
> before the inaugural run with paying passengers."
>
>
> So much for the "not enough qualifying trips" cop
> out.

This must be from the Fox link. The Oregonian story says he took seven to 10 trips, with only three at the throttle -- two north, one south.

I leave this question to the professionals here: Is that enough throttle time on a new route to really be qualified?

The engineer manning the Amtrak train that derailed last month in Washington state — sending cars onto an interstate highway — may have lost track of where he was moments before the speeding train jumped off the tracks at a curve, a report released Thursday found.
The unidentified 55-year-old male engineer said that he was aware that the curve — with a 30 mph speed limit — was at milepost 19.8 and that he planned on slowing the train about one mile before reaching it, a report by the National Transportation Board found.
But he actually only hit the breaks at the start of the curve, after missing milepost 18.
Seconds later, Amtrak 501 — which had been traveling nearly 80 mph — derailed, killing three people onboard and injuring around 100 as it tumbled off an overpass and onto I-5 near Olympia.
The engineer reported feeling well rested at the start of his shift and said he wouldn’t have gotten aboard if he had any reservations about his ability to operate the train.
A 48-year-old conductor who had also been in the locomotive said he was looking down at track bulletins when he heard the engineer mumble something, looked up and then felt the train flying through the air.
Investigators said they would compare these interviews with video footage and other information in the coming weeks.
The investigation is expected to last between 12 and 24 months.


It would seem to me the first day on a brand new run, I would be glued to all ahead so as to be certain I'm doing exactly as I should be doing. Exactly what I should be doing.
PennPlat



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/18 13:01 by PennPlat.

It was the Fox link. Didn't read the other one.

All I can say personally is that I never accepted being qualified on a route before I truly felt I knew it well enough.

It has never happened to me, but I have heard stories about engineers being harassed for requesting additional trips. If that is true, then there is a real problem in the industry.

So where was the road foreman?

Alco251 Wrote:
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> So where was the road foreman?

Wow DB...you just HAD to go there, eh? Nice troll.

A few more details in the NTSB statement here...

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/mr20180125.aspx

> Alco251 Wrote: So where was the road foreman?

> trainjunkie Wrote: Wow DB...you just HAD to go there, eh? Nice troll.

There's absolutely nothing "trolling" about it.

It's a perfectly legitimate question and I hope the NTSB has the balls to explore that facet and has it as a concern in their investigation.

A "real" railroad would have had a Road Foreman escorting every crew over that line for the first several days. Isn't that what Road Foremen are for?

Or is their specialty conducting audits on conductors for on-board ticket sales?

You tell me.

CA_Sou_MA_Agent Wrote:
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> You tell me.

My opinion on all the "where was the road foreman" statements is covered thoroughly in this thread.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,4450417,page=1

He got lost. It happens, usually not with catastrophic results. It takes a while to be totally comfortable on a route. Often you are looking for mile markers and reading notes. Not excusing what happened. He missed a milepost and a 30 mph advance sign.

The hogger missed TWO MPs......18 and 19.

AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

The problem is that we have 49CFR240 stuff for engineers but no one questions the railroad's and their training AFTER cert. 10 trips on high speed is not enough. We have guys they want to give two round trips on 100 miles of track and then argue about more time. Safety is no longer the priority now that there isn't a Harriman Award. There needs to be a standardized set of minimum trips agreed to by the FRA, The carriers, and the unions. You should also be taking tests on the territory. My guess is none of this happened in this case or the next one coming.

Joe

agentatascadero Wrote:
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> The hogger missed TWO MPs......18 and 19.
>

...and THIS at 18.5 (the advance board is at about 18: https://goo.gl/maps/DRcvDYWPjZM2

TAW

CA_Sou_MA_Agent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> A "real" railroad would have had a Road Foreman
> escorting every crew over that line for the first
> several days. Isn't that what Road Foremen are
> for?
>
> Or is their specialty conducting audits on
> conductors for on-board ticket sales?
>
> You tell me.
=============================================

Is what we are dealing with here a "REAL" railroad?

CA_Sou_MA_Agent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> A "real" railroad would have had a Road Foreman
> escorting every crew over that line for the first
> several days. Isn't that what Road Foremen are
> for?



Assuming that the RFE should also not be on duty more than 12 hours, the best I come up with if all trains are exactly on time and the RFE does not need to see the bulletins before getting into the cab is four of them. If the engineer blows through a slow before the RFE finishes filtering through the novel-sized pile of paper that the crews go on duty with, they're ALL fired. If you can't find four RFE crazy enough to take that risk, you need nine of them.

How many RFE does a "real" railroad have?

TAW

---

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CA_Sou_MA_Agent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > A "real" railroad would have had a Road Foreman
> > escorting every crew over that line for the
> first
> > several days. Isn't that what Road Foremen are
> > for?
> >
> > Or is their specialty conducting audits on
> > conductors for on-board ticket sales?
> >
> > You tell me.
> =============================================
>
> Is what we are dealing with here a "REAL"
> railroad?
ON a real railroad the union will not tolerate management qualifying crews except on the last run where the engineer gets signed off as qualified. Fellow engineers are supposed to run with you and let you work the throttle while they tell you what's what. Moreover you should have note cards with a list of all pertinent permanent orders that you can follow until you know the line well. Cheat sheets are not just permissible they are necessary for safety. Anyone just getting used to a line that won't use them is a cowboy not an Engineer.