Passenger Trains > Trump to Phase Out Sleeping Cars

Due to heavy subsidies, the Trump Administration is proposing to phase out sleeping cars on LDTs. Making America Great Again.

And, the states can fund the LDTs if they wish. Let's go, Indiana and Ohio!

That's DOA, like his budget...

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

His budget went straight to the garbage pale last year. It will again this year.

reindeerflame Wrote:
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> Due to heavy subsidies, the Trump Administration
> is proposing to phase out sleeping cars on LDTs.
> Making America Great Again.
>
> And, the states can fund the LDTs if they wish.
> Let's go, Indiana and Ohio!

Listen-up you'll Red Stateers in the Snow Belt along the Empire Builder Route. You wanna sleep on a train in a cozy bed in the driving snow @ 40 below (pun intended) then step right up to the bar partner and plunk your taxes down! Folks hereabouts are tired of subsidizing other folks' little houses on the prairie!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/18 18:40 by railwaybaron.

If he wants to phase out sleepers, we'll just have to phase him out !

railwaybaron Wrote:
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> Yes, let's hear it from all the Red State voters
> in the Snow Belt along the Empire Builder Route.
> You wanta sleep on a train in a cozy bed in the
> driving snow @ 40 below (pun intended) then step
> right up to the bar partner and plunk you taxes
> down! Folks is tired of subsidizing other folks'
> little houses on the prairie!

Unfortunately arguments like this don't work, no matter what its for. You can easily say that ANY project would benefit but a small portion of the population. I, living in California, don't want the US Government spending any money at the Atlanta airport because I never use it and most US residents don't either. I imagine those in Minnesota don't see why the Feds should fund a highway interchange in Los Angeles, because "they are tired of subsidizing other folks suburban lifestyles." You have to look at the entire country as a whole, not single expenditures by themselves.

NARP just released this:

White House Infrastructure Plan Guts Long-Distance Amtrak
#17-25
February 12, 2018
Rail Passengers Urges American Public To Oppose Proposed Budget Cuts
February 12, 2017
Contact: Xenophon Strategies - (202) 289-4001
Washington, D.C. - The White House today released a disappointing package of infrastructure initiatives and transportation budget cuts, including once again advancing plans to gut Amtrak’s long-distance services by cutting $757 million from the annual Amtrak grant.
The Administration contends that the money needed to operate the National Network after the cuts can come from the states served, but also suggests that devolving costs to the States “is only one tool in the menu of options for reform the Administration will be exploring to improve the current system and reduce Federal subsidies in the Long Distance network.”
The Rail Passengers Association is asking its members to take action immediately to stave off these draconian cuts to vital National Network services. RPA has set up an online tool to permit riders and members alike to let the White House know directly that they disagree with these proposed cuts. Visit www.railpassengers.org/whitehousebudget to take action.
Donald Trump campaigned on a message of bringing America's infrastructure into the 21st Century. He specifically cited passenger rail, saying it was embarrassing how far behind the US has fallen compared with China, and promising to close that gap.
Today’s new budget proposal, however, calls for the virtual elimination of Amtrak's National Network, slashing the railroad’s budget roughly in half, from $1.4 billion to $738 million.
“They know full well that asking states to absorb more costs is not feasible, and the default choice will be to drop service,” said RPA President Jim Mathews in response to the budget. This approach failed before, because the long-distance train network serves markets that overlap on state corridors. The question of what entity pays for which service got messy when the same approach was tried on what would become the Lake Shore Limited in 1971 – the end result being a collapse of service after only nine months.
Another proposed item on the “menu” involves phasing out first class sleeping cars. Sleeping car fares cross-subsidize coach services on long distance trains. The federal cost of moving one person one mile in a sleeping car is less than it is in coach. This change would actually worsen the financials of the national network.
If funding for Amtrak's National Network is cut, more than 220 communities will lose service, and more than 140 million Americans will be left at the station. These are mostly smaller and rural towns, and they don't have airports or Megabuses.
“Just because these towns are small doesn't make them fly-over country, though” Mathews continued. “They are the cities and towns that voted for [Trump] because they felt disconnected from the American dream, and they deserve a government that invests in them. Amtrak provides that connection, letting these Americans access critical services, jobs, and family.”
Other cuts include the popular and effective grant program known as TIGER, or Transportation Investment Generating Economic Recovery, which so far has injected a little more than $5 billion into transportation investments nationwide.
“The move to eliminate TIGER grants flies in the face of the stated goal of both the White House’s budget and Mr. Trump’s infrastructure proposals, which are ostensibly aimed at encouraging more private investment,” Mathews added. “In some ways, TIGER is the ultimate public-private partnership, attracting nearly $4 of additional investment for every TIGER grant dollar awarded.”
The Rail Passengers Association continues to urge that Mr. Trump fulfill his promise to rebuild and modernize America's rail network, and just as they did last summer, RPA members will #Rally4Trains at stations nationwide to show their support for a true national rail service.

About the Rail Passengers Association
The Rail Passengers Association is the oldest and largest national organization speaking for the nearly 40 million users of passenger trains and rail transit. We have worked since 1967 to expand the quality and quantity of passenger rail in the U.S. Our mission is to work towards a modern, customer-focused national passenger train network that provides a travel choice Americans want. Our work is supported by more than 28,000 individual members nationwide.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/18 13:10 by darkcloud.

It sounds like The President is a typical Northeast Corridor resident who thinks "nothing else counts." What's surprising is that there are many on TO who hold similar views, yet hate Mr. Trump. Go figure.

darkcloud Wrote:
-----------------------------------------------
> The worst thing for Amtrak would be for NARP/RPA
> to lobby like a say anything, defy all logic
> Passenger Board foamer. Can get tuned out real
> quick as not credible and thus useless by those
> making the decisions.


Already is.

darkcloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> seaboardc30-7 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > NARP just released this:
>
> >... The federal cost of moving one person one
> mile in a sleeping car is less than it is in
> coach...."
>
>
> Since a coach car can carry nearly twice as many
> passengers as a sleeper, that seems to be a
> blatantly dishonest statement.

Except the fares and passenger miles traveled are much higher. Basic math.
>
> The worst thing for Amtrak would be for NARP/RPA
> to lobby like a say anything, defy all logic
> Passenger Board foamer. Can get tuned out real
> quick as not credible and thus useless by those
> making the decisions.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/18 13:10 by darkcloud.

When they nail you $400 - $ 700 a night in addition to the transportation charge of say $100, like it is between the East Coast and Chicago, I think it safe to assume Aggregate Revenue minus Cost is far better for the sleeper, even with half the passenger load.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/18 16:01 by joemvcnj.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When they nail you $400 - $ 700 a night in
> addition to the transportation charge of say $100,
> like it is between the East Coast and Chicago, I
> think it safe to assume Aggregate Revenue minus
> Cost is far better for the sleeper, even with half
> the passenger load.


Thank You for helping the math challenged :-)

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/18 13:10 by darkcloud.

SanDiegan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It sounds like The President is a typical
> Northeast Corridor resident who thinks "nothing
> else counts." What's surprising is that there are
> many on TO who hold sim8ilar views, yet hate Mr.
> Trump. Go figure.

Amtrak LDTs are not high on my list of issues when selecting a candidate to support or oppose at any level. I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case with most people.

Yes they do indeed. I do hope they can crank these numbers out of Amtrak, somehow or other. Cheer-leading "Connected America" won't do it by itself. But given their "Daily Cardinal Campaign", which has pretty much crashed and burned, I don't know. "Little" problem with it: it would have cost $10 million more in operating subsidies, despite better farebox recovery ratio.

You see, the 15 Performance Improvement Plans had a wealth of information, but I don't think they paid much attention to it for the Cardinal. The one for the Capitol Ltd, with thru Pennsylvanian cars, made it rather clear they needed a sleeper, not just 2 coaches, to be worth their while to carry out. Ergo, the sleeper yield at least as much NET revenue, and likely more, than a coach. At that point, it would have been operating budget neutral. THAT's why I have been an outspoken advocate for that one, I like cheap do-ables, yet it got no formal action from the advocate organizations.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/18 17:19 by joemvcnj.

If sleepers are more profitable than coaches, then why are overnight trains not all sleepers? It would help the comfort of the traveling public.

Because they don't have that many sleepers on the roster, and haven't bought anything in over 20 years.
Do note the VL-II order has zero coaches, 25 sleepers, 10 bag-dorms. That is also part of the financing arrangement.

darkcloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> seaboardc30-7 Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > NARP just released this:
> >... The federal cost of moving one person one mile in a sleeping car is less than it is in coach....">
>
> Since a coach car can carry nearly twice as many
> passengers as a sleeper, that seems to be a
> blatantly dishonest statement.
>
> The worst thing for Amtrak would be for NARP/RPA
> to lobby like a say anything, defy all logic
> Passenger Board foamer. Can get tuned out real
> quick as not credible and thus useless by those
> making the decisions.

You are exactly right.