Passenger Trains > Don't block the tunnel, Mr Trump

The right leaning NY Post tells the President, and NJ NY to sit down and cut a real deal.


https://nypost.com/2018/03/11/dont-block-the-hudson-rail-tunnel-mr-president/

Posted from Android

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/18 12:56 by darkcloud.

Nobody but Chao said 5%. There are other machinations underway to get local funding and private funding

http://www.roi-nj.com/2018/03/08/industry/gateway-corp-talks-private-investors-financing-project-management/

But of course, that is OK in a Red state for an LRV line that is totally local, no Amtrak, and not a part of the NEC.
They were asking for 50% federal funding and a federal loan for 15.5%

https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-department-transportation-announces-180-million-loan-charlotte-lynx-blue-line

"U.S. Department of Transportation Announces $180 Million Loan for the Charlotte Lynx Blue Line Extension"
"U.S. Department of Transportation’s Federal Transit Administration (FTA) is providing $580 million for the $1.16 billion project through FTA’s Capital Investment Grant Program"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/18 15:43 by joemvcnj.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/18 12:56 by darkcloud.

I am not trying to defend political behaviors up here either.

The NJ state share of ARC, of about $2.7B should have been parked and then reprogrammed for Gateway. It instead went to highways so that Christie would not have to break a pledge to Grover Norquist and raise the gas tax, which he eventually had to do anyay.

The Port Authority had another $3 Billion ARC money lined up. About $245 million went to rebuild the PATH Harrison station, which needed rebuilding, but should have cost about 20% of that. No idea where the rest disappeared to.

New York and Amtrak rounded up some hundreds of millions, some of it taken from MTA capital budget for Moynihan station, which I think is a total waste of a vanity project and should have gone to Gateway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/18 16:26 by joemvcnj.

Watch a major disaster happen and then we'll see who gives in! 100+ years old and as usual, politics get in the way and hardly anything gets done!

Posted from Android

I am guessing it is a ploy to get Chuckie Schumer in line on a whole slew of other issues such as DACA and immigration reform; we all know that is how politics works inside the Beltway. "You want something really bad then I am going to get something that is really important to me." And then, the American people get screwed.

Marty Harrison
Knob Noster, MO



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/18 07:48 by livesteamer.

Marty, that's always the case, nothin' new here!

darkcloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> How come you grifters can't come up with solid
> funding more than 5%, when more than 90% of tunnel
> users are local? Loans can always be defaulted
> on, need more than just a promise to pay it back.
> Especially when NY/NJ has a long history of
> corruption, featherbedding, etc driving up costs
> to several times what it would be in elsewhere,
> far beyond inflation and local higher cost of
> living.
>
> The chutzpah that you all think you could get the
> rest of the country to pay for so much of such a
> local project is amazing.

What a narrow minded outlook

We spend billions on our interstate highway system, which heavily serves local drivers and trucks, especially in urban area. We spend other billions on waterways that I don't use. We spend billions on airports and traffic control systems and i never fly. Then there is money for hurricane victims and victims of massive forrest fires and I have never suffered from any of these. I can say that I don't benefit directly from any of this, but the money is being spent so that we can exist as a society. So I support these endeavors through my taxes while telling my congressional representatives where my priorities lie.

I am angry that the Northeast Corridor is underwritten by AMTRAK when our three very fine passenger corridors in California pay their own way through state support. Nonetheless, I support the tunnel project; it doesn't benefit me directly, but it impacts an important part of our economy. If we don't work for the common good then we look just like another third world country.

Amtrak reorganized its operations several years ago to allow greater visibility and accounting for NEC, state supported, and long distance trains. Three operating units, sharing a lot of common overhead.

Has that financial and accounting information ever been released in a usable form?

John Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> darkcloud Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> >
> > How come you grifters can't come up with solid
> > funding more than 5%, when more than 90% of
> tunnel
> > users are local? Loans can always be defaulted
> > on, need more than just a promise to pay it
> back.
> > Especially when NY/NJ has a long history of
> > corruption, featherbedding, etc driving up
> costs
> > to several times what it would be in elsewhere,
> > far beyond inflation and local higher cost of
> > living.
> >
> > The chutzpah that you all think you could get
> the
> > rest of the country to pay for so much of such
> a
> > local project is amazing.
>
> What a narrow minded outlook
>
> We spend billions on our interstate highway
> system, which heavily serves local drivers and
> trucks, especially in urban area.

the interstate system provides most of EVERYTHING in your life that makes you and most EVERYBODY else comfortable (food, clothes, housing, etc.) unless you are currently living "off the grid" in a residence you built by yourself with materials you provided. also, our interstates provide vital links in supporting a good economy. our economy would be negatively impacted without our interstates and highways.

> We spend other
> billions on waterways that I don't use.

if any of those billions were spent on our coastal waters and ports, again, items that are provided to make yours and others lives more comfortable moved on and through them also benefiting our economy.

> We spend
> billions on airports and traffic control systems
> and i never fly.

controlling the airspace and airports is a matter of national defense as demonstrated in 911. you benefit from national defense.

also, even IF you never fly, the economies surrounding busy airports benefit by the volume of people flying and entering areas through these airports that spend money in local economies.

> Then there is money for
> hurricane victims and victims of massive forrest
> fires and I have never suffered from any of these.
> I can say that I don't benefit directly from any
> of this, but the money is being spent so that we
> can exist as a society. So I support these
> endeavors through my taxes while telling my
> congressional representatives where my priorities
> lie.
>
> I am angry that the Northeast Corridor is
> underwritten by AMTRAK when our three very fine
> passenger corridors in California pay their own
> way through state support. Nonetheless, I support
> the tunnel project; it doesn't benefit me
> directly, but it impacts an important part of our
> economy. If we don't work for the common good
> then we look just like another third world
> country.

66

Headline misquoted: "Mr President"

So, with the current tunnels being the ticking time bomb death traps that they are, any theories as to why it wasn't until 2015 that NY/NJ were finally able to get something from the previous administration, and why all that they were able to get from the previous administration was nothing more than a late-term campaign promise?

goneon66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the interstate system provides most of EVERYTHING
> in your life that makes you and most EVERYBODY
> else comfortable (food, clothes, housing, etc.)
> unless you are currently living "off the grid" in
> a residence you built by yourself with materials
> you provided. also, our interstates provide vital
> links in supporting a good economy. our economy
> would be negatively impacted without our
> interstates and highways.

The transportation network in and around New York provides the employees and employers of our financial nerve center (big banks, Wall St., whatever else you can come up with) the means to help our economy, in good ways and bad. That's me, the critic of Wall St. admitting the importance of infrastructure like the Hudson Tunnel, even if in practice, I distrust the integrity of the politicians promoting the project.

While I agree with you that our highway system is important to our economy, it seems we don't think passenger rail in urban area is. So using your logic, let's shut down Wall St., the big banks, and anything else related to finance in and around NYC, since highways are way more important. John wasn't saying we should shut down our highway system - he's searching for "fairness."

I'll take John's statements further. We don't deserve to exist as one nation the way people are arguing and pointing fingers at each other. States should secede. Then, California can go bankrupt building a half-ass half-speed rail network, and the rest of the continent won't care. States who solely depend on the highways to sustain the economy can do so themselves, and we can finally stop funding the money pit called the Interstate (and WW can finally relax). State highway systems already exist, so why not? States (or the seceded "nation/states") can collect fees/tariffs for those who must cross the boundaries to do commerce. The hate of California can finally be realized with appropriate border fees.

Nomad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, with the current tunnels being the ticking
> time bomb death traps that they are, any theories
> as to why it wasn't until 2015 that NY/NJ were
> finally able to get something from the previous
> administration, and why all that they were able to
> get from the previous administration was nothing
> more than a late-term campaign promise?

Chris Christie had other priorities, so he had no interest in helping Schumer, Menendez, Booker, etc work the tunnel through a hostile Congress.

Posted from Android

darkcloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The chutzpah that you all think you could get the
> rest of the country to pay for so much of such a
> local project is amazing.

No Problem. I'll take back the airport, interstate highways and Federal designated highways that you use, those military bases near you, the port and barge routes, and you can build your own water supply while you are at it. I could go on for a long, long time.

Brian

choodude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No Problem. I'll take back the airport,
> interstate highways and Federal designated
> highways that you use, those military bases near
> you, the port and barge routes, and you can build
> your own water supply while you are at it. I
> could go on for a long, long time.
>
> Brian

OK, just don't take back the highways which my county built itself by the voters approving an extra penny for the sales tax.

I think most people here are OK with the Federal government paying a share, but they expect NJ and NY to actually pay their share, too.

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> choodude Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No Problem. I'll take back the airport,
> > interstate highways and Federal designated
> > highways that you use, those military bases
> near
> > you, the port and barge routes, and you can
> build
> > your own water supply while you are at it. I
> > could go on for a long, long time.
> >
> > Brian
>
> OK, just don't take back the highways which my
> county built itself by the voters approving an
> extra penny for the sales tax.

BTW, those taxes you paid (and me) are woefully inadequate for maintaining or expanding the system. Nobody wants to pay more taxes, but "nobody" also wants world class roads. How's that workin' for everyone?
>
> I think most people here are OK with the Federal
> government paying a share, but they expect NJ and
> NY to actually pay their share, too.

ATSF3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ts1457 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > OK, just don't take back the highways which my
> > county built itself by the voters approving an
> > extra penny for the sales tax.
>
> BTW, those taxes you paid (and me) are woefully
> inadequate for maintaining or expanding the
> system. Nobody wants to pay more taxes, but
> "nobody" also wants world class roads. How's that
> workin' for everyone?

My point was that my county increased our tax load to get something that we wanted. I see no help for that coming from the NYC region or even our own state. As I said most people are willing for the Feds to pay its share of Gateway, but the region needs to pay for its share also with something other than a Federal loan.

livesteamer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am guessing it is a ploy to get Chuckie Schumer
> in line on a whole slew of other issues such as
> DACA and immigration reform; we all know that is
> how politics works inside the Beltway. "You want
> something really bad then I am going to get
> something that is really important to me." And
> then, the American people get screwed.

Ditto!