Passenger Trains > The food fight continues

Yes, Yes I know this is a waste of time but it made me feel better, okay?

Dear Mr Anderson:

Thank you for the program to renovate some Amfleet cars. I am attempting to begin this communication on a positive note and this is the sole piece of good news from Amtrak in the past two years or so that comes to mind.

I have booked an Amtrak/Via trip that includes Montreal-Schenectady-Chicago-Kansas City on Amtrak. I was looking forward to the trip. I am still upbeat about the Via portion. If I had known that you were planning to eliminate real meals on the Lake Shore I would have used the extra time and money allocated for a Lake Shore sleeper and flown home from Canada. But then I suppose the real objective is to turn people away. There has been a relentless drip, drip,drip, death-of-a-thousand cuts, nickle and dime cost cutting at Amtrak. Most of this seems targeted to the long distance network.

It is rumored that you are particularly ill disposed toward these trains. Virtually all of the former first class amenities are now history. Now it looks like any kind of decent food service is on the way out. I know you are aware of how to provide a first class product because I have used same on Delta. Why does the same quality seem to be out of the question on Amtrak? If the food service deficit is the issue then why not increase sleeping car fares? People pay considerable sums for this service and I do not think most would be adverse to paying a little more for decent food. It would certainly be better than the current trend of paying more for less.

My friends know that I use trains often and I have steered quite a few to Amtrak over the years. One of the things that people seem to enjoy the most is the experience of eating in the dining car and meeting new people. This is something that is only replicated on cruise ships. I will be returning from Montreal with two friends. This will be the fourth time they have made this trip and what they enjoy the most is the dining car. I do not think they will be impressed with their subway in a box dinner. I will no longer mention Amtrak as a travel alternative.

In my mind one of the was the most galling aspects of the latest Amtrak indignity is the corporate double speak billing same as an improvement. I think this is going to be a very hard sell. I just can't see many of your customers being gullible enough to believe a cold sandwich in a box is an improvement to sit down service and a hot meal. You've got to be kidding! This is straight out of the playbook that most of the rail industry was using during the 1960's when they were trying to rid themselves of passenger service by making it as unattractive as possible. At least they were fairly upfront about their intent and did not have the chutzpah to label it as enhancement. To add insult to injury with your recent service degradation you do not have even offer passengers that have already booked the option of canceling or changes without charges. The Amtrak web site still advertises these trains as having full dining service. To date I have received no notice from Amtrak of the "contemporary" snack service that will be replacing real meals. Guess you wanted it to be a surprise, right?

I am really given to wonder if you even ride your own trains. Do you have any idea why people chose Amtrak? Do you think we are all clueless eccentrics or afraid to fly? Are you baffled that some people would forgo the siren call of the skyways and highways for a train? Do you even believe in your own product? I wonder if there is any vision of a national rail network. I am afraid that your vision of the long distance trains, if they are to continue in any form, is a bare bones, glorified bus service devoid of all amenities, sort of a long haul subway without the frequency. You could bill this as SOW service, Seats Over Wheels.

It must surely be apparent by now to anyone that is paying addition that you have adopted a stealth program to eliminate Amtrak as a national network. We will be left with the Northeast Corridor and, maybe, the state supported services. Although with Amtrak's take-it-or-leave-it attitude, opaque accounting and past poor relations with the states these services are probably on borrowed time also. All of this comes as a particularly bitter irony to those of us that have fought for Amtrak these many years. I believe that there is increasing public support for a really good rail passenger system and more bi-partisan political support also. Amtrak just received the best budget news that I can remember. Despite all of this I believe the outlook for Amtrak passengers is more bleak than ever.

Anyway, in case someone at Amtrak actually reads this, I am not so delusional as to thing any of the above will matter but I needed to vent. I just hope the Adirondack is on-time into Schenectady. If so I can run over to Pinhead Susan's and get a shepherd's pie for 10 bucks. It comes on a real plate with actual cutlery and it's hot. If the train is late maybe I get it to go, still be better than what will be on offer from you guys. Maybe I can still get a real meal on the Southwest Chief on the last leg home. I am not holding my breath. Amtrak still has time to bestow its tender mercies on it also. Reminds me of an old Russian proverb: Today is worse than yesterday but better than tomorrow. Have a nice day.

A completely disgruntled customer
Wayne Copple
Kansas City, MO

TLDR. Especially at the CEO Level.

"All of this comes as a particularly bitter irony to those of us that have fought for Amtrak these many years...I just hope the Adirondack is on-time into Schenectady. If so I can run over to Pinhead Susan's and get a shepherd's pie for 10 bucks. It comes on a real plate with actual cutlery and it's hot."

Two separate thoughts here, and ones that many of us here on TO have shared. We've fought so long and so hard for Amtrak as a national entity to be successful, and here we are with an Amtrak CEO invoking "the law" of PRIIA to justify his efforts to degrade and probably kill the long-distance trains, and forcing the states to pay up 100% of all costs of "regional" trains and to have the entire nation contribute to the important but bottomless money pit that's the Northeast Corridor.

The focus should be on changing PRIIA. That's what Anderson is hanging his hat on, and that's the law that needs to be changed.

Anderson: “I see we got another letter from a hobbyist.”

Posted from iPhone

reindeerflame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anderson: “I see we got another letter from a
> hobbyist.”
>
> Posted from iPhone


Does it matter who makes up many of Amtrak's riders? At the end of the day, they are still a customer and contribute to the revenue column.

reindeerflame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anderson: “I see we got another letter from a
> hobbyist.”
>
> Posted from iPhone


Boy are you really that blind and stupid! Come on Reindeer you really need to wake up!

Airline Boy doesn't care about customers. Thank you all for speaking up. Please tell your congressman and senators.

So true, the evidence already speaks for itself!

Posted from Android

ProAmtrak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> reindeerflame Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Anderson: “I see we got another letter from a
> > hobbyist.”
> >
> > Posted from iPhone
>
>
> Boy are you really that blind and stupid! Come on
> Reindeer you really need to wake up!


He's only doing it for attention, like a few others on here.

With Delta Dick at the controls, Amtrak is toast as we know it. Pull up! Pull up!

Reliable sources have indicated that a well-known columnist for a highly respected rail-oriented magazine recently interviewed Richard Anderson and after only a few minutes was convinced he was “totally clueless about how Amtrak works, and his vision for the future was a distorted picture that no well-informed CEO would present to the media or the public”. He further concluded that Anderson came across as aloof and unfriendly, and Anderson felt his ideas were well thought out and researched, and they would have to be accepted no matter how much opposition there was to them.

This turbulent situation brings to mind the reign of David A. Stockman, who was the Director of the Office of Management and Budget 1981-1985 under President Regan. He was an extremely controversial figure who was an avid supporter of “trickle down economics”, an economic theory which advocates reducing taxes on businesses and the wealthy. His ideas were widely unpopular and he resigned in 1985.

Based on Anderson‘s recent comments and his vision for the future of Amtrak he MUST be removed ASAP.

Anderson's Future:

Save Delta + "Save" Amtrak = Secretary of Transportation.

B&OB

I hope not, I still drive a truck when I would like to have extra cash to ride the government train. Don’t guess I spend the money on that but please don’t screw up trucking anymore than it already is.

I dislike political comments being brought into railroad discussions. Mr. Stockman has nothing to do with the current situation at Amtrak.




seaboardc30-7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> This turbulent situation brings to mind the reign
> of David A. Stockman, who was the Director of the
> Office of Management and Budget 1981-1985 under
> President Regan. He was an extremely
> controversial figure who was an avid supporter of
> “trickle down economics”, an economic theory
> which advocates reducing taxes on businesses and
> the wealthy. His ideas were widely unpopular and
> he resigned in 1985.
>

kansas1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dislike political comments being brought into
> railroad discussions. Mr. Stockman has nothing to
> do with the current situation at Amtrak.
>
Well, actually it does. Here is why: There is not much daylight between the Stockman philosophy and supply siders of today who belive fervently in the so-called free enterprise system of which Amtrak was always an outsider. Stockman also thought Government was part of the problem...as did Regan....and surmised that Amtrak, being a Government institution that really served no useful purpose (to them) was the poster child of everything wrong with Government. Today we see a Administration who believes firmly in a version of supply side, which by it's very definition is counter to an institution such as Amtrak. They are bent on destroying everything is does not agree with through a thousand cuts or sheer incompetence and lack of clear directions. At least the Regan administration seemed to have more focus.

One more thing. Supply side has always been a hoax foisted on an unsuspecting public. During each supply side "event", the top earners increase their share of the wealth through generous tax policies that favor them with some notion it will trickle down. As history has shown, Robin Hood now wears gold slippers.
>
>
>
> seaboardc30-7 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > This turbulent situation brings to mind the
> reign
> > of David A. Stockman, who was the Director of
> the
> > Office of Management and Budget 1981-1985 under
> > President Regan. He was an extremely
> > controversial figure who was an avid supporter
> of
> > “trickle down economics”, an economic
> theory
> > which advocates reducing taxes on businesses
> and
> > the wealthy. His ideas were widely unpopular
> and
> > he resigned in 1985.
> >

I have a question. WHY do you think the railroads became freight only? I'll tell you why. The simple answer is that THERE'S NO PROFIT IN IT. I understand that Amtrak cannot make money in everything it does, BUT it should cut where it is losing money. It ALWAYS seems we have NO MODERATION in the way our government runs ANYTHING. The liberals want to give everyone's money away and the conservatives want to keep all the money. We, the constituents are ALWAYS caught between the two. I do think there is room for compromise in this situation BUT if ANY subsidized transportation modality is going to survive, IT MUST efficient, easy on the eyes and serve the public to the BEST of its abilities. This whole situation reminds me of a popular bumper sticker from "back in the day": Ass, Grass or Gas, no body rides free.

The "top earners" pay a lot of money to buy a government that gives them what they want.

Who do you think buys all those $10,000 a plate dinners the R and D candidates host? And why?

Posted from Android

Latebeans Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, Yes I know this is a waste of time but it
> made me feel better, okay?
>
> Dear Mr Anderson:
>
> Thank you for the program to renovate some Amfleet
> cars. I am attempting to begin this communication
> on a positive note and this is the sole piece of
> good news from Amtrak in the past two years or so
> that comes to mind.
>
> I have booked an Amtrak/Via trip that includes
> Montreal-Schenectady-Chicago-Kansas City on
> Amtrak. I was looking forward to the trip. I am
> still upbeat about the Via portion. If I had
> known that you were planning to eliminate real
> meals on the Lake Shore I would have used the
> extra time and money allocated for a Lake Shore
> sleeper and flown home from Canada. But then I
> suppose the real objective is to turn people away.
> There has been a relentless drip, drip,drip,
> death-of-a-thousand cuts, nickle and dime cost
> cutting at Amtrak. Most of this seems targeted to
> the long distance network.
>
> It is rumored that you are particularly ill
> disposed toward these trains. Virtually all of
> the former first class amenities are now history.
> Now it looks like any kind of decent food service
> is on the way out. I know you are aware of how to
> provide a first class product because I have used
> same on Delta. Why does the same quality seem to
> be out of the question on Amtrak? If the food
> service deficit is the issue then why not increase
> sleeping car fares? People pay considerable sums
> for this service and I do not think most would be
> adverse to paying a little more for decent food.
> It would certainly be better than the current
> trend of paying more for less.
>
> My friends know that I use trains often and I have
> steered quite a few to Amtrak over the years. One
> of the things that people seem to enjoy the most
> is the experience of eating in the dining car and
> meeting new people. This is something that is
> only replicated on cruise ships. I will be
> returning from Montreal with two friends. This
> will be the fourth time they have made this trip
> and what they enjoy the most is the dining car. I
> do not think they will be impressed with their
> subway in a box dinner. I will no longer mention
> Amtrak as a travel alternative.
>
> In my mind one of the was the most galling aspects
> of the latest Amtrak indignity is the corporate
> double speak billing same as an improvement. I
> think this is going to be a very hard sell. I just
> can't see many of your customers being gullible
> enough to believe a cold sandwich in a box is an
> improvement to sit down service and a hot meal.
> You've got to be kidding! This is straight out of
> the playbook that most of the rail industry was
> using during the 1960's when they were trying to
> rid themselves of passenger service by making it
> as unattractive as possible. At least they were
> fairly upfront about their intent and did not have
> the chutzpah to label it as enhancement. To add
> insult to injury with your recent service
> degradation you do not have even offer passengers
> that have already booked the option of canceling
> or changes without charges. The Amtrak web site
> still advertises these trains as having full
> dining service. To date I have received no notice
> from Amtrak of the "contemporary" snack service
> that will be replacing real meals. Guess you
> wanted it to be a surprise, right?
>
> I am really given to wonder if you even ride your
> own trains. Do you have any idea why people chose
> Amtrak? Do you think we are all clueless
> eccentrics or afraid to fly? Are you baffled that
> some people would forgo the siren call of the
> skyways and highways for a train? Do you even
> believe in your own product? I wonder if there is
> any vision of a national rail network. I am
> afraid that your vision of the long distance
> trains, if they are to continue in any form, is a
> bare bones, glorified bus service devoid of all
> amenities, sort of a long haul subway without the
> frequency. You could bill this as SOW service,
> Seats Over Wheels.
>
> It must surely be apparent by now to anyone that
> is paying addition that you have adopted a stealth
> program to eliminate Amtrak as a national network.
> We will be left with the Northeast Corridor and,
> maybe, the state supported services. Although
> with Amtrak's take-it-or-leave-it attitude, opaque
> accounting and past poor relations with the states
> these services are probably on borrowed time also.
> All of this comes as a particularly bitter
> irony to those of us that have fought for Amtrak
> these many years. I believe that there is
> increasing public support for a really good rail
> passenger system and more bi-partisan political
> support also. Amtrak just received the best
> budget news that I can remember. Despite all of
> this I believe the outlook for Amtrak passengers
> is more bleak than ever.
>
> Anyway, in case someone at Amtrak actually reads
> this, I am not so delusional as to thing any of
> the above will matter but I needed to vent. I
> just hope the Adirondack is on-time into
> Schenectady. If so I can run over to Pinhead
> Susan's and get a shepherd's pie for 10 bucks. It
> comes on a real plate with actual cutlery and it's
> hot. If the train is late maybe I get it to go,
> still be better than what will be on offer from
> you guys. Maybe I can still get a real meal on
> the Southwest Chief on the last leg home. I am
> not holding my breath. Amtrak still has time to
> bestow its tender mercies on it also. Reminds me
> of an old Russian proverb: Today is worse than
> yesterday but better than tomorrow. Have a nice
> day.
>
> A completely disgruntled customer
> Wayne Copple
> Kansas City, MO

The reality is that the vast majority of customers aren't shopping their train experience based on the dining experience. Their need is transportation from A to B (and/or C). First key item is schedule. Second key item is price. Then you start getting in the stacked pyramid of factors. Aside from the foamers and the leisure customer shopping primarily (exclusively) on price, these attributes are far less important than those first two. It's true in all modes of transit. Why do you think Megabus has exploded around the U.S.? Or the Chinatown bus phenomenon in the Northeast? Price and schedule.

At some point, with due respect here, y'all need to realize that Amtrak must change in a revolutionary way in order to survive long term. And, to be able to thrive in a world that is actually moving towards greater inter-city rail transit, not away. There is a reason the airlines don't operate the DC-8 or 707. Amtrak is the rail equivalent right now and needs desperately to become something new or it will not survive under it's own weight. Adding back fancy (expensive) meals and all these bells and whistles at the end of the day will, sadly, do little to drive new or increased business to the Amtrak platform. Amtrak needs frequency, reliability and modern equipment first and foremost. Get the backbone working correctly and then you can manage around those attributes that are incremental.

jcoons Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (SNIP)
>
> At some point, with due respect here, y'all need
> to realize that Amtrak must change in a
> revolutionary way in order to survive long term.
> And, to be able to thrive in a world that is
> actually moving towards greater inter-city rail
> transit, not away. There is a reason the airlines
> don't operate the DC-8 or 707. Amtrak is the rail
> equivalent right now and needs desperately to
> become something new or it will not survive under
> it's own weight. Adding back fancy (expensive)
> meals and all these bells and whistles at the end
> of the day will, sadly, do little to drive new or
> increased business to the Amtrak platform. Amtrak
> needs frequency, reliability and modern equipment
> first and foremost. Get the backbone working
> correctly and then you can manage around those
> attributes that are incremental.

Bustle has a review of the various lunch / dinner airline boxes available for purchase on the airlines. In general, they run $8-$12, credit cards only.

Delta's Tapas Snackbox "is the U.S. airline industry's only non-GMO snack box," Platkin wrote, and it's a pretty filling choice, too — it includes almonds, bruschetta, cheese spread, chocolate, crackers, dried fruit, flatbread, hummus, and a mint for less than $10. ...
Close runner-up Virgin America also scores in the snack box category, including a high-protein pack containing hummus, nuts, and tuna, and a Jet Set Kid Pack. Packs like this, with enough individual snacks to make a full meal, can be hugely helpful for people who are on long flights and want to purchase one meal and be able to spread it out throughout the whole flight. It's also great for folks who need to eat at regular intervals for health reasons.

Platkin also noted that Virgin offers purchasable meals that include a turkey sandwich and a chicken and grape salad. His top choices are the protein pack, granola with yogurt and fruit, and the chicken salad.

https://www.bustle.com/p/what-airline-has-the-best-food-a-new-survey-ranks-the-food-options-on-12-airlines-just-in-time-for-all-your-holiday-travel-7431657

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bustle has a review of the various lunch / dinner
> airline boxes available for purchase on the
> airlines. In general, they run $8-$12, credit
> cards only.
>
> Delta's Tapas Snackbox "is the U.S. airline
> industry's only non-GMO snack box," Platkin wrote,
> and it's a pretty filling choice, too — it
> includes almonds, bruschetta, cheese spread,
> chocolate, crackers, dried fruit, flatbread,
> hummus, and a mint for less than $10. ...
> Close runner-up Virgin America also scores in the
> snack box category, including a high-protein pack
> containing hummus, nuts, and tuna, and a Jet Set
> Kid Pack. Packs like this, with enough individual
> snacks to make a full meal, can be hugely helpful
> for people who are on long flights and want to
> purchase one meal and be able to spread it out
> throughout the whole flight. It's also great for
> folks who need to eat at regular intervals for
> health reasons.
>
> Platkin also noted that Virgin offers purchasable
> meals that include a turkey sandwich and a chicken
> and grape salad. His top choices are the protein
> pack, granola with yogurt and fruit, and the
> chicken salad.

I think this demonstrates that people's eating habits are more diverse than ever. A conventional dining car likely would only satisfy a minority.

Jack