Passenger Trains > For actual facts and a sane analysis, try Fred Frailey's article

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/18 15:34 by darkcloud.

darkcloud Wrote:
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> He even gives Trainorders some free publicity...

Good and bad!

Great opinion. The arguments are well made.

I will comment on one statement: "Amtrak projects savings of $3 million a year on the Capitol and Lake Shore with cold box meals. It could save at least as much serving Acela-style hot meals—and make its customers a lot happier."

I think the reason for this is just recognizing that hot meals will be cold by the time they are served to passengers in their rooms. Perhaps those choosing to eat in the lounge could have a hot meal option.

Jack

Frailey is right.

What I have a problem with is the imbalance of resources. On the Lake Shore: 1 LSA and 12 tables for about 60 sleeper passengers and 1 LSA and 8 tables, less 2 hogged by the crew, for 300 - 360 coach passengers.

And get some hard boiled eggs for breakfast Even 7-11 does that. The lack of protein they are planning is disgraceful.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/18 17:44 by joemvcnj.

Frankly, this article shocked me a little.

Frailey says that a large portion of the dining car deficit is caused by employees steeling the revenue (sticky fingers)-- or even steeling the inventory before it ever gets to the dining car. To prevent this he suggested dining cars go cashless--just like airlines did.

If the airlines improved revenue by a credit-card only policy -- why didn't Delta Richard try this first. He must be familiar with the problem.

That's a good question, or be like David Gunn and take the time to learn things instead of having that stupid dumb butt mindset of "My way or the highway" mentality!

People are more apt to spend money that is plastic. You also should be able to buy food vouchers online. But Andersen seems only concerned with cost solutions.

Posted from Android

Frailey does make a couple of useful positive suggestions:
Go cashless to eliminate potential employee cash mismanagement (OK theft)
Serve hot Acela style meals . -- definitely

He also mentions that the cold food offering is what
"exactly like what sleeping-car passengers on the Portland-Spokane section of the Empire Builder have been eating for decades, " He ignores the fact that once the Portland section connects with the Seattle section, all PDX passengers can get a full hot breakfast. Big difference.

For a different take, read (if you have access to Trains Newswire) Bob Johnston's Analysis: Amtrak food 'talking points' illustrate management misconceptions"
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/04/23-amtrak-food-talking-points-illustrate-management-misconceptions

Bob addresses a number of issues that are likely to make this change highly problematic. I'm with Bob on this issue.

WP17

ronald321 Wrote:
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> Frankly, this article shocked me a little.
>
> Frailey says that a large portion of the dining
> car deficit is caused by employees steeling the
> revenue (sticky fingers)-- or even steeling the
> inventory before it ever gets to the dining car.
> To prevent this he suggested dining cars go
> cashless--just like airlines did.
>
> If the airlines improved revenue by a credit-card
> only policy -- why didn't Delta Richard try this
> first. He must be familiar with the problem.

If Frailey's claim -- about the magnitude of the costs from thefts by employees -- is true, that is awful and needs to be stopped yesterday. But I wonder how he knows what the total annual costs of those thefts really are? What are his sources for that claim? I ask this *only* because Amtrak's accounting is said to be so opaque that no one outside of some people at Amtrak can know what its revenues and costs really are, and Amtrak is said not to use GAAP -- Generally Accepted Accounting Practices, which are said to be the standard in the accounting industry.

In any case, it is ridiculous for anyone to use how much money poor Amtrak is claimed to loses each year on its food service as an excuse to cut full dining service on any trains.

About that steak dinner --
Frailey will never need to pay for one, as Anderson cares only about cutting costs, and not at all about what Amtrak passengers need and deserve in food service. Amtrak is not an airline! I am quite sure that he would never accept a cold box lunch for dinner on any of the aircraft he flies in, so why should any Amtrak passengers have to accept that?

Anderson's changes to Amtrak will drive away passengers, so that far fewer people will choose to ride Amtrak LD trains, so Congress can then get away with discontinuing all LD trains -- because "no one rides them". Same ploy the SP used back in the 1960s, and it worked then, and it will work quite well in the near future with Congress and poor Amtrak's long-distance trains.

Amtrak should be run more like a business and less like a hobby shop- Touché,

There are those hobbyists again:

Why does Amtrak handle cash.?

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> People are more apt to spend money that is
> plastic. You also should be able to buy food
> vouchers online. But Andersen seems only concerned
> with cost solutions.

You mean he smells of a typical corporate "turnaround specialist" where cost-cutting is the only motive, while finding ways to generate more revenue is secondary? If he stays the 3 years at Amtrak per agreement, we'll know the answer, whether he has a real revenue-generating plan or not.

To me, the Frailey article qualifies as an anti-insane analysis, which is different from a sane analysis. Basically, he's using our anger and frustration as a sounding board for his opinion. I'm actually not too impressed. Theft control should be done ALL THE TIME regardless of cash or credit card transaction. It supports my accusation that Amtrak managers aren't managing ("lazy") because the employees feel they can get away with it. What if management are co-conspirators? Remember, Amtrak work environment promotes cronyism (Polly Hanson), conflict of interest (Benjamin Sheets), and bribery (Timothy Miller). Or maybe the opaque accounting practices make the "losses" difficult to catch in a timely manner?

It's softball to only mention the food cost problem, when to me, the problem is FAR bigger than that. Mr. Anderson is really going to need help here, hence why I'm not too impressed with his article.

I do like the hot Acela food idea instead of the cold box meals, but I have difficulty understanding his problem when I haven't had food problems onboard West Coast trains (California Zephyr, Coast Starlight, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief) as much as he seems to portray from his riding the East Coast trains. Yes, there'd be occasional misses, but I think stash or Mudrock (who ride the LD trains more often than me) is better qualified to speak about that.

I also agree with him that it's premature to have a funeral for the LD trains. However, it's never too early to be prepared, and study/discuss different angles. The circumstances of how Anderson became CEO smell suspicious to me at the moment. To quote a famous tech CEO, "Only the Paranoid Survive."

reindeerflame Wrote:
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> Amtrak should be run more like a business and less
> like a hobby shop- Touché,
>
> There are those hobbyists again:
>
> Why does Amtrak handle cash.?

Haha. Such condescension... another reason not to be impressed.

Funny how Apple co-founders turned their hobbies into a business. Many other successful businesses grew out of a hobby, in fact. Part of the reason why many corporations fail is because when the founder (the hobbyist) leaves, the organization loses focus.

Some of the best railroaders I've met enjoy the job like a hobby. I'm sure they appreciate your spitting in their face. :-)

Margaret_SP_fan Wrote:
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> But I wonder how he knows what the total annual costs of
> those thefts really are? What are his sources for
> that claim? I ask this *only* because Amtrak's
> accounting is said to be so opaque that no one
> outside of some people at Amtrak can know what its
> revenues and costs really are, and Amtrak is said
> not to use GAAP -- Generally Accepted Accounting
> Practices, which are said to be the standard in
> the accounting industry.

Good call out. I'm not convinced of the numbers mentioned by Frailey, either, at least not yet. It smells of the typical media tactic of declaring "fact" and people buy into it without second-guessing... or in this thread's case, the "War on Foamer" elements are using those "facts" for mockery.

What I mentioned (criminal convictions of Amtrak employees) are far more factual, even if the convictions might get overturned. :-)

Frailey doesn't mention Anderson's recent remarks, as reported by Paul Dyson of RailPAC. There the threat to the long-distance services was explicit--no need to make inferences via the food service angle.

Paul Wilson
Arlington, VA

Amtrak is filthy with employee theft apparently. The last time we rode the Lake Shore, one of our roomettes was quickly occupied by friends of the car attendant. She had taken our tickets and then said she could not find tickets for that room and we would have to pay $500 for another room. My son and family was put in the $500 room but I was not paying. She said she would call the conductor - "DO it!" as I had copies of my tickets she was unaware of. While she was getting the conductor, my so found my original tickets she had done away with in the 'money room'.
In the end, the conductor saw what was going on as I held onto the tickets for viewing and my son stood there holding the lost set. She was horrified as she had been found out. The conductor refused to do anything other than agree that we had paid and were riding. She disappeared for the most part.

It appears this new Anderson character knows nothing about business and the only way to fix things is to destroy it all. Very common these day in any business.

dcfbalcoS1 Wrote:
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> Amtrak is filthy with employee theft apparently.
> The last time we rode the Lake Shore, one of our
> roomettes was quickly occupied by friends of the
> car attendant. She had taken our tickets and then
> said she could not find tickets for that room and
> we would have to pay $500 for another room. My son
> and family was put in the $500 room but I was not
> paying. She said she would call the conductor -
> "DO it!" as I had copies of my tickets she was
> unaware of. While she was getting the conductor,
> my so found my original tickets she had done away
> with in the 'money room'.
> In the end, the conductor saw what was going
> on as I held onto the tickets for viewing and my
> son stood there holding the lost set. She was
> horrified as she had been found out. The conductor
> refused to do anything other than agree that we
> had paid and were riding. She disappeared for the
> most part.
>

I thought the conductor collected all tickets? I have not ridden sleeper for at least 18 years, but I always remember that my tickets, coach or sleeper, were always collected by the conductor or assistant conductor. Anyway on today's Amtrak aren't your tickets always electronic?

On Auto-Train, boarding pass / tickets are checked by the attendant on the platform as you board your car. As recently as last Fall.

nm2320 Wrote:
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>
> I thought the conductor collected all tickets? I
> have not ridden sleeper for at least 18 years, but
> I always remember that my tickets, coach or
> sleeper, were always collected by the conductor or
> assistant conductor. Anyway on today's Amtrak
> aren't your tickets always electronic?

On the Star I have had times where my ticket has not been physically scanned, I asked once and was told they know I'm there. Maybe they check it off from their list or something. This has been when the conductor(s) was loading a ton of coach passengers and I was one of a few (or the only) sleeper passenger boarding. I was directed down the platform where the sleeper attendant directed me to my room. As this has been at one of those 0 dark thirty stops I figured the conductor was not going to come to my room to wake me up to scan my ticket when he or she finally got all the coach passengers settled.

Even though I have it on my phone I always print a copy of my ticket, I guess I'm old enough that I like having a physical copy instead of relying only on my phone.

Once you board, how much time is there until you are deemed a no-show and expunged from the manifest ?

As for getting an estimate of how much food is stolen outright, or served without proper payment:

Seems to me this is a simple matter of inventory control. Compare the amount of food brought on board with the amount sold. A large discrepancy (backed up perhaps with some simple sleuthing by secret "pretend passengers) should give you a pretty good idea.

The cold box lunch for first class passengers is pretty crappy, IMO. But I have to admit that the single-night-onboard eastern trains like the LSL are tough to justify full diner service on.

The LSL westbound has 2 diner seatings up the Hudson with just 2/3rd the consist. More follow after Albany. It does OK for breakfast east and west.
I don't know about the lunch eastbound.

CL is a different story. Capacity is about 225 coach passengers and about 60 sleeper, though with light loadings east of Pittsburgh, there is not a big westbound dinner crowd. Pittsburgh is analogous to Albany, but that is midnight westbound and 430am eastbound.

I don't think Andersen has the competency to distinguish between the 2 trains or have a policy of what the ratio of food service workers should be to revenue capacity, or of meal times. He is too busy shooting from the hip.