Passenger Trains > Santa Fe El Capitan Question

How much of the current Amtrak Southwest Chief route was used by the El Capitan say back in the 1940’s? I remember my grandmother telling me she rode that train back from California, so I was curious how much of the original routing of that train is in use today by Amtrak. Any ideas???

Three main differences: the Southwest Limited now operates on:

1) the former CB&Q between Chicago and Cameron Junction (a few miles west of Galesburg) instead of the Santa Fe route (and of course uses Union Station instead of Dearborn Station in Chicago, and the Q station in Galesburg instead of the Santa Fe station);

2) the Topeka sub between Holliday Junction, KS and Emporia instead of the cutoff through Ottawa, KS, and

3) the Riverside line instead of the Pasadena line between LA and San Bernardino.

czephyr17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Three main differences: the Southwest Limited now
> operates on:
>
> 1) the former CB&Q between Chicago and Cameron
> Junction (a few miles west of Galesburg) instead
> of the Santa Fe route (and of course uses Union
> Station instead of Dearborn Station in Chicago,
> and the Q station in Galesburg instead of the
> Santa Fe station);
>
> 2) the Topeka sub between Holliday Junction, KS
> and Emporia instead of the cutoff through Ottawa,
> KS, and
>
> 3) the Riverside line instead of the Pasadena line
> between LA and San Bernardino.

Yep todays Amtrak SW Chief runs via Fullerton CA --Riverside CA.
as far as I know The ATSF Santa Fe EL Capitan ran via Pasadena CA and Pomona to ger to San Bernardino CA.
ALL of the most important ATSF passenger trains ran via Pasadena CA.
I think only the secondary passenger trains ran via Fullerton .
---Daniel



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/18 22:13 by daniel3197.

czephyr17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Three main differences: the Southwest Limited now
> operates on:
>
> 1) the former CB&Q between Chicago and Cameron
> Junction (a few miles west of Galesburg) instead
> of the Santa Fe route (and of course uses Union
> Station instead of Dearborn Station in Chicago,
> and the Q station in Galesburg instead of the
> Santa Fe station);
>
> 2) the Topeka sub between Holliday Junction, KS
> and Emporia instead of the cutoff through Ottawa,
> KS, and
>
> 3) the Riverside line instead of the Pasadena line
> between LA and San Bernardino.

Since the poster mentioned the 40s, you might want to throw in the Crookton cutoff from Williams Jct to Crookton, Arizona, by-passing the towns of Williams and Ash Fork, though neither of these towns were stops on the El Cap.

BCHellman Wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------
> Since the poster mentioned the 40s, you might want
> to throw in the Crookton cutoff from Williams Jct
> to Crookton, Arizona, by-passing the towns of
> Williams and Ash Fork, though neither of these
> towns were stops on the El Cap.

Good catch. That was definitely big enough to be considered a “reroute”.

Posted from iPhone

How can the Arizona new trackage can be considered a reroute, when much of the old trackage was removed .

Don't forget the 1972 line change at Summit, CA; also the Barstow line change that rerouted passenger trains east of the depot...unsure of the date...but the ElCap certainly was more accustomed to the old route.

BCHellman Wrote:

> Since the poster mentioned the 40s, you might want
> to throw in the Crookton cutoff from Williams Jct
> to Crookton, Arizona, by-passing the towns of
> Williams and Ash Fork, though neither of these
> towns were stops on the El Cap.


My Santa Fe timetable of May, 1956 shows the ElCap did indeed stop at Williams and Ash Fork, the latter being Arizona Division HQ until the Crookton cutoff was completed.

BCHellman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> czephyr17 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> Since the poster mentioned the 40s, you might want
> to throw in the Crookton cutoff from Williams Jct
> to Crookton, Arizona, by-passing the towns of
> Williams and Ash Fork, though neither of these
> towns were stops on the El Cap.

The El Cap went through Williams and Ash Fort in both directions in the 1940's and it was a flag stop in the westbound direction. Eastbound the El Cap went through in the middle of the night, so no stops. After the Crookton cutoff was built it by passed Ash Fork.

How about pushing to rename the Southwest Chief as the El Capitan?

Plus a little bit of differentiation in downtown Chicago as the El Capitan used Dearborn Station and the Southwest Chief uses Union Station.

Arizona Division was split up... 1949 or 1950?

reindeerflame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about pushing to rename the Southwest Chief as
> the El Capitan?

I know you're just joking, but if it did happen, so many dearly departed ATSF management (and rank 'n file)
guys would be rolling over in their graves, there would be little earthquakes here and there.

I like the SW Chief; Amtk does the best job they can with it, which is pretty good. But it's not the "Cap." (-:

OldPorter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> reindeerflame Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > How about pushing to rename the Southwest Chief as
> > the El Capitan?
>
> I know you're just joking, but if it did happen,
> so many dearly departed ATSF management (and rank
> 'n file)
> guys would be rolling over in their graves, there
> would be little earthquakes here and there.
>
> I like the SW Chief; Amtk does the best job they
> can with it, which is pretty good. But it's not
> the "Cap." (-:

I believe reindeerflame thinks El Capitan would be a good name if the sleeping cars are dropped.

You know, his humor is a bit twisted at times.

Alco251 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BCHellman Wrote:
>
> > Since the poster mentioned the 40s, you might
> want
> > to throw in the Crookton cutoff from Williams
> Jct
> > to Crookton, Arizona, by-passing the towns of
> > Williams and Ash Fork, though neither of these
> > towns were stops on the El Cap.
>
>
> My Santa Fe timetable of May, 1956 shows the ElCap
> did indeed stop at Williams and Ash Fork, the
> latter being Arizona Division HQ until the
> Crookton cutoff was completed.

Ash Fork was never a Division headquarter and was never on the Arizona Division. Completion of the Crookton cutoff did not result in any division or sub-division rearrangements, nor did it re-arrange any crew change points.

The Albuquerque Division stretched between Isleta, NM and Seligman, AZ and had its headquarters at Winslow, AZ. The Arizona Division stretched from Seligman to Mojave and had its headquarters at Needles, CA. On April 2, 1950, the Arizona Division was dissolved, with the First District, Seligman to Needles, becoming the Albuquerque Division's Kingman District; the Second District, Needles to Barstow, becoming the Los Angeles Division's Needles District, and the Third District, Barstow to Mojave, becoming the Valley Division's Mojave District (which included the segment Kern Jct. to Bakersfield).