Passenger Trains > No AEDs at Penn Station

I just boarded the Pennsylvanian at NYP, while waiting in the main waiting area where the big board used to be, a woman collapsed and based on what EMTs we’re doing, she was having a heart attack. They were performing chest compressions and administering oxygen when I left. No AED was being used. I find this surprising given Penn Station is the busiest station in the network. You would think they would have AEDs for just such a circumstance.
Nick

Posted from iPhone

Possibly the EMTs didn't think it appropriate in this case.
 

doesn't every dining car have one?

AED's are not normally used by EMT's and Paramedics. They usually have more advanced equipment available.
AED's are meant for "civilians" to use until trained help arrives.

My local volunteer fire department (38 yr member) has AEDS and they are used by EMTs, FDs, LEOs and civilians.  The abutting career FD uses them as well. I carried one in my private vehicle for many years and ended up using it in several cases. When we open the cover, the AED gives explicit spoken directions on what steps to do, analyzes the patient's heart rhythm and then advises what we should do -- administer a shock (push a button) or continue CPR. Not all heart rhythms are shockable.  Paramedics (EMT-P) will use our AEDs as well if we already have our pads in place on the patient while they are getting set up.  Paramedics also can administer intravenous medicines which EMTs (at least here) can't do. Our local public schools have them as well. Now -- the legalities of AED use will vary from state to state so your mileage will vary!

Bruce
Columbia MO



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/18 18:56 by BCutter.

Just for information, Delta Air Lines, the former employer of Amtrak's CEO, offers
training in CPR and AED use for employees of business who wish to enroll and
pay what Delta charges for the training.  This is an adjunct to their training of
flight attendants and is intended for not only civilians but for healthcare providers.
=======================================================

QUOTE:

No matter what industry your business is in, your employees could be faced with
a life or death situation on the job. Delta can train your workforce to be prepared
in the event they need to save someone's life.

To schedule training or inquire about pricing, contact us.

American Heart Association–BLS Healthcare Provider This course teaches
CPR for victims of all ages (including ventilation with a barrier
device, bag-mask device and oxygen), use of an automated external defibrillator
(AED) and relief of foreign-body airway obstruction (FBAO). It's intended for those
who provide healthcare in a variety of settings, including in-hospital and out-of-hospital venues.

American Heart Association–HeartSaver AED This course focuses on the basic techniques
of adult CPR and the use of an AED.  Students will also learn about using barrier devices in CPR,
giving first aid for choking and how to recognize the signs of four major emergencies: heart attack,
stroke, cardiac arrest and foreign-body airway obstruction.

American Heart Association–HeartSaver CPR  Designed for lay
rescuers, this course trains participants how to recognize and
treat life-threatening emergencies — including cardiac arrest and choking for
adult, child and infant victims. Students also learn to recognize the warning signs
of a heart attack and stroke in adults and breathing difficulties in children.

https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/about-delta/business-programs/training-and-consulting-services/cpr-aed-training.html

============================================================

If indeed there exist no AEDs in New York Penn Station, this should be remedied and
Richard Anderson should be looking into the situation.

As for the particular situation, if the patient still had a pulse and was breathing, the use
of an AED would most likely be contraindicated.  The professional first responders on the
scene would have the ability to make that judgment.  The AEDs for civilian use have
hardware and software to evaluate the patient and determine the suitability for AED use,
and instructions for lay users.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/18 19:09 by GenePoon.

dan Wrote:
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> doesn't every dining car have one?

Maybe they can be used to heat up those “contemporary dining” cold meals 😀

I find it hard to believe that the EMTs did not have an AED on their truck. I am sure if they needed it somebody would have went back to get it...

Posted from Android

could it be on the stretcher or built in?

DevalDragon Wrote:
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> I find it hard to believe that the EMTs did not
> have an AED on their truck. I am sure if they
> needed it somebody would have went back to get
> it...


EMTs carry a professional-grade defibrillator in the kit that they carry to the patient.
They do not need an AED.

Lets clear up some misinformaiton being posted here:

• AED is an Automatic External Defibulator
• Defibulation whether by manual trigger or by an AED is not always helpful.
• Defibulaiton can only be done a limited amount of times.
• There are different "grades" of AEDs. First responders would have a pressional grade. The basic ones (most commonly seen everywhere) do not have recharable batteries, ability to record/print information or communicate to other devices or networks.
• First responders MAY INDEED carry a professional grade AED. I know that some equipment of LA County Fire other than squads do have them.
• ALL paramedic equipment carry a defibulator whether manual trigger or automatic.

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DevalDragon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I find it hard to believe that the EMTs did not
> > have an AED on their truck. I am sure if they
> > needed it somebody would have went back to get
> > it...
>
>
> EMTs carry a professional-grade defibrillator in
> the kit that they carry to the patient.
> They do not need an AED.

Maybe for the departments you worked. But we had AEDs on our trucks...

I inadvertently may have opened a can of worms when I mentioned AEDs used by local FDs around me.  If so, I apologize. These AEDS are intended for use by Basic Life Support (BLS) responders -- FDs, LEOs, civilians, etc. The last few iterations of our current AEDs do indeed record stuff like rhythms and # of shocks for later downloading at the office  The on-scene analysis is done by the internal computer in the AED -- our EMTs etc are not trained to read EKG's so printouts are not useful to us. The batteries are not rechargeable per SE but they are long lived and can easily be replaced. The defibrillators (aka 'defibs') used by ALS (Advanced Life Support) ambulances staffed with at least one paramedic (EMT-P) are also capable of printing out what we call "a strip" showing the actual rhythm which can then be used either on scene or at the hospital to assess actions.

Bruce