Passenger Trains > Amtrak to end LDTs on non-PTC Territory 31 December 2018

The Trains Mgazine newswire reports that the Amtrak Board has directed that it will no longer operate ANY passenger trains in non-PTC territory effective the end of the year.  This involves the Vermont trains east of Whitehall, NY. The SW Chief over Raton Pass, the Cardinal on the Buckingham Branch, the Texas Chief over a portion of UP south of St. Louis, the California Zephyr west of Grand Junction, The City of New Orleans over a short strecth of CN, and the Donwneasters east of Haverhill, Mass. 

If this doesn't cause the Congress to rise up and mandate service, I don't know what will.

Art House

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/08/27-amtrak-says-it-will-not-run-trains-on-routes-without-ptc

The thing that has me staring at my screen in disbelief is that Amtrak proposes to spend $4-13 million to build layover and turning facilities in order to execute their crapulent "bus plan" for the SW Chief. This is the same allegedly poverty-stricken outfit that refuses to release its $3 million commitment in matching funds for the TIGER grant.

Paul Wilson
Arlington, VA

It would destroy the system overnight. What’s left implode.

To paraphrase Sir Winston Churchill ( poorly no doubt) This may not be the end of LDT's but it sure is the begininng of the end.

  Sad day for American train travel. Grateful I'm just old enough to remember experienceing it when it was the "civilized" way to go.

   Ross Rowland

Well, I don't know most routes, but could the SW re-route between say KC and ABQ? 

I'd think the CZ would die, as Grand Junction is I'm thinking about 1/2 way. And nothing West of Grand Junction to re-route. Even if they used the UP from Denver-Cheyenne-Odgen, this thread implies that Odgen-Sparks-Reno-Donner-Sacramento-and into Oakland is not covered. I don't know, just what I'm reading here. 

Mike ONeill
Parker, CO

> This may not be the end of LDT's but it sure is the begininng of the end.

Yes. I don't expect all LDTs to be discontinued anytime soon, but we are on the way to a smaller LD network. Meanwhile the state governments can rescue the Vermont and Maine trains if they choose to. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/18 08:21 by ctillnc.

There are some easy fixes within this mess.

The Texas Eagle should have been running on the Chester sub all along. This is the former Mopac from Chester to Thebes and Poplar Bluff that all the freight traffic uses. Amtrak uses the former Oak Hill Branch/De Soto Sub that the Mopac passenger trains used. Better track, but misses the new stop at Arcadia, MO (no others). 

The City of New Orleans is a tough one, it sounds like CN has installed PTC on the Hollywood District around Memphis that the freight trains use, but not the former passenger mainline through town. Temporary platform elsewhere intown while PTC is installed through town?

I can easily see the CZ move over to Wyoming for 6months-1 year while PTC is installed in Western CO/Utah (they can still run the ski train). I believe Green River, WY and a couple other stops still have platforms. Moving over to the UP mainline would hurt business, but not by more then 10-20%. 

The Buckingham Branch, thats a really difficult problem. The Cardinal is the only train mandated by Congress to be operated. There really isnt an alternative. You could eliminate the Orange -Cville section by doing a reverse move at Charlotteville, but you still need to upgrade 100 miles of railroad Cville to Clifton Forge

The Ethan Allen from Whitehall NY to Rutland is a very short strecth, i would think VT could come up with some funds for that. Its only a few miles.

Vermonter/Downeaster. No idea...

Adam 

 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/18 08:29 by AltiplanoRailtours1.

AltiplanoRailtours1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are some easy fixes within this mess.
>
> The Texas Eagle should have been running on the
> Chester sub all along. Better track, but misses
> the new stop at Arcadia, MO (no others).
>
> The City of New Orleans is a tough one, it sounds
> like CN has installed PTC on the Hollywood
> District around Memphis that the freight trains
> use, but not the former passenger mainline through
> town.
>
> I can easily see the CZ move over to Wyoming for
> 6months-1 year while PTC is installed in Western
> CO/Utah (they can still run the ski train).
>
> The Buckingham Branch, thats a really tough one.
> The Cardinal is the only train mandated by
> Congress to be operated.
>
> The Ethan Allen from Whitehall NY to Rutland is a
> very short strecth, i would think VT could come up
> with some funds for that. Its only a few miles.
>
> Vermonter/Downeaster. No idea...
>
> Adam 
>
>  


The easy easy fix is new leadership.   

If Congress passes the DOT appropriation bill which DIRECTS Amtrak to maintain service, the Amtrak Board action would fly in the face of Congress. The Senate votes were so overwhelmingly in favor of maintaining service (96-4, 94-6) that there will be a direct confrontation with Amtrak.

Could the Board be putting up in effect a challenge to get the issue resolved once and for all? Are some members secretly hoping for a tidal wave of opposition to get rid of Anderson? Or are they so weak-kneed that they follow him over the cliff like lemmings?

Since Andersons' first statement about not running any trains on non-PTC trackage 7-8 months ago, has there REALLY been any doubt that he would do so?  He's made no secret of really wanting to kill the LD network by his actions, which speak far louder than his words. 

Driving away LD passengers by reduced consists, cold dog food in a box, and way too many to count food and amenity 'shortages' speak volumes!  Last April, I encountered dining car 'not stocked at xxx-city' situations at all 3 meals.  Last week, on BOTH the Sliver Star southbound and Silver Meteor northbound, there were only SIX (6) bath-sized towels supplied in the sleeper I was riding.  Similarly last April, I forget which Superliner equipped train I was on, but there was only 1 bundle of towels in the shower when I boarded and only 1 spare package of clean towels (6) in the luggage storage area.  Now you know why I generally get up at 5:30AM or so...to get a shower WITH a towel!  Speaking of last weeks' Silver trips...both times, upon boarding, the SCA was not at the door, and on the Meteor, didn't even OPEN it when I boarded at Winter Park!  3 weeks ago, boarding the Cardinal at WAS, the SCA was seen by NO ONE until maybe 15 minutes out of Washington!  Needless to say, their tips were cut from $10 to $5 before I saw any of them!  Perhaps generally piss poor SCA 'customer service' is another way Anderson's MTTA...Making Trains Terrible Again!  

Needless to say, I'm in "Ride 'em if you Got 'em" mode these days.

I'm taking the Crescent both ways from NYP 3 hours from now.  I wonder what new ways Anderson is going to use to drive away passengers...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/18 08:37 by BRAtkinson.

This is insane thinking....

Dcmcrider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The thing that has me staring at my screen in
> disbelief is that Amtrak proposes to spend $4-13
> million to build layover and turning facilities in
> order to execute their crapulent "bus plan" for
> the SW Chief. This is the same allegedly
> poverty-stricken outfit that refuses to release
> its $3 million commitment in matching funds for
> the TIGER grant.

Propellar head should get a kick in the shaft for this....you kidding me spend more on these stupid turnaround facilities than the 3 million to upgrade....geez crazy.
What unitl Pro-Amtrak see's this one.....
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/18 08:44 by bluesboyst.

Some questions that might be posed to Amtrak Board Members:

1. What is the cost to add PTC to the areas which you have outlined on the seven LDT routes earmarked for discontinuation?  Where have you provided such information in writing for taxpayers snd stakeholders to peruse?

2. Why did you not engage the specific states mentioned in a more productive session to identify and resolve barriers (on the SWC) for example?  (See quoted paragraph below).

3. What is your BATNA with representative states for each LDT route in question?
What is the states' response to such negotiations?  May we view such details?

(Gardner’s message prefaced the meeting in Raton last week hosted by Colfax County, N.M., for more than 40 officials whose cities and states have already invested millions of dollars in matching funds to three approved federal grants designed to shore up the Southwest Chief’s route.

Steve Cottrell was there. He’s the Assistant City Manager of Garden City, Kan., the sponsor of the first Transportation Infrastructure Generating Economic Recovery grant to improve the roadbed and replace 1955-vintage rails on the line. Cottrell tells Trains News Wire that Gardner claimed several times that Amtrak “had no preconceived end game in mind” when he delivered a presentation that outlined exactly that: a bus bridge from either Dodge City, Kan., or La Junta, Colo., to Albuquerque, N.M.

“I made the statement to him,” says Cottrell, “that it would have been a much more pleasant meeting had Amtrak sat down with the [Southwest Chief] Coalition, and state DOT’s prior to making such statements because we want to work out how to get the TIGER 9 [grant, the latest providing funding to maintain the Chief route] off the ground and get a commitment for their share of the money.”

Cottrell adds, “If it’s going to take working out another 3- to 5-year plan for the improvements, either to the railroad or start some phased installation of PTC, so be it, but to get blindsided by this bus bridge thing and then come in and say they have no preconceived idea just kind of set a negative tone to the meeting that shouldn’t have had to be that way.”)



 

OK, this is a full accounting of the meeting held in Raton several days ago. Trains has gotten the Amtrak PowerPoint presentation from the meeting and reports on the stunned response of the attendees with Amtrak's saying that this is the way it is, get used to it.

Edit: In June NM Senator Heinrich met with Amtrak officials in DC. He came away disappoointed:

KOB uncovered documents revealing exactly what Amtrak management has in store for our state’s largest passenger rail link.In a meeting with Amtrak CEO Richard Anderson, U.S. Sen. Martin Heinrich, D-N.M., along with a bipartisan delegation of lawmakers from neighboring states, asked the railroad to follow through with funding that would supplement a federal grant. 

Heinrich said the meeting did not go well.   “I think this was one of the most unproductive meetings with an agency level official that I’ve ever experienced,” he said. “To learn that not only are they planning to pull back their commitment to the TIGER grant, but that they're going to abandon the route I think is just outrageous.”
https://www.kob.com/albuquerque-news/heinrich-balks-at-amtraks-plan-to-abandon-nm-route/4961142/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/18 09:04 by Cumbresfan.

The Downeasters can probably just be contracted out. Amtrak's role is hardly essential in that corridor.

Herzog, anyone?

towazy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The easy easy fix is new leadership.   

Of the 7 members of the Amtrak Board of Directors (who are the ones that put Richard Anderson into position) 6 are Former President Obama nominees.

Doesn't the Coast Starlight and the Silver Star have non-PTC trackage? Also a short piece of the Empire Builder in Minneapolis. A few miles of low speed, yard limit track would be a good enough excuse for Anderson to get rid of 2500 miles of route don't you think?

Posted from Android

Cumbresfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Congress passes the DOT appropriation bill
> which DIRECTS Amtrak to maintain service, the
> Amtrak Board action would fly in the face of
> Congress. The Senate votes were so overwhelmingly
> in favor of maintaining service (96-4, 94-6) that
> there will be a direct confrontation with Amtrak.
>
> Could the Board be putting up in effect a
> challenge to get the issue resolved once and for
> all? Are some members secretly hoping for a tidal
> wave of opposition to get rid of Anderson? Or are
> they so weak-kneed that they follow him over the
> cliff like lemmings?


You don't understand. A board like this has no power. They exist to select the management, and then they support the management's decisions. There's no secret concept in play.

Does the name Mick Mulvaney ring any bells? He was an Amtrak nemesis when he was in the Congress, and is now head of Mr Trump's OMB.

When Mr Anderson was head of Northwest, he specialized in two-fer deals. Northwest, United, Delta would close remote stations, leaving the station with just one regional partner. Which would then get a subsidy to continue service.

Worked well the last time...

Posted from Android