Passenger Trains > Report: New Viewliner-2 Diners being converted to Lounges

According to a report in Railway Age, various Amtrak sources have confirmed that the
brand-new CAF USA-built Viewliner II dining cars—part of a multi-million-dollar-order
for baggage cars, sleepers and diners—are having their expensive cooking equipment
removed and are undergoing conversion into lounge cars. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/18 00:00 by GenePoon.

Oh that tears it.   :(
 

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to a report in Railway Age, various
> Amtrak sources have confirmed that the
> brand-new CAF USA-built Viewliner II dining
> cars—part of a multi-million-dollar-order
> for baggage cars, sleepers and diners—are having
> their expensive cooking equipment
> removed and are undergoing conversion into lounge
> cars. 

Are they going to leave any room for microwave ovens? Or is that taking up too much "premium real estate?" :-)

Our tax dollars at work.

Well, they do need decent lounge cars on the low level eastern trains. Better than having them rot away in storeage. 

Well, yes. Amtrak ought to be able to bring in more revenue selling alcoholic beverages and snacks with one employee than in service  as a money losing diner with a full staff . Lounges are good at making the time pass faster, even if you don't " let alcohol touch your
lips " as the old time teetotalers use to say.

On the positive side...would love to see one of those on the Pennsylvanian, Palmetto, Carolinian and Cardinal. Anything is better than sitting in a yard or being used for axle count.

Posted from Android

[this is a repost from an earlier thread]  
I take this as potential good news, depending on just what the conversion entails .  On-board food preparation is dead (it's the 21st Century in case you missed it) and to be really useful the kitchens on the V2 diners need to be reconfigured to better accommodate shore-based catering, much like on an airplane.  Hopefully this will also include some provision for efficient take-away service such as on a current Amdinette/Amcafe.  Done right, the reconfigured cars could significantly upgrade food/lounge service on longer day trains like the Palmetto and others.  If the cars on LD trains were reconfigured as roughly 1/2 dining and 1/2 lounge and access were restricted to sleeping car passengers it would allow service of meals equivalent to airline international 1st class while providing a dedicated lounge area for sleeping car passengers.  I want to emphasize "done right" and recognize that is not a given, but the days of pies made from scratch and baked on the cars is gone.  Below is the menu from a Swissair flight from Atlanta to Zurich.  It was prepared in the Flight Kitchen at Atlanta Hartsfield Airport and could almost as easily have been delivered to the Amtrak station and put on 20.  My point is that I think our time is better spent trying to shape the future than moaning about the past.

Gordon





 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/18 05:16 by gbmott.

---

As we see from "Comtemporary Dining", it could be done right, and opened to coach passengers as well with good, prepared meals, but if they can find a way to screw up, they will.

Death by a thousand cuts!

If these dining cars are being converted -- I hope it is possible to remove the walls surrounding the kitchen area--so that the full car length is opened up into what the railroads used to call a "full lounge car".

It would be an improvement if these new "full lounge cars" would replace Amcafe cars -- such as on Chicago to Detroit & St. Louis.
Then, covert the Amcafe cars into full coaches (maybe to expand the 2-car shuttles between New Haven-Springfield--to satisfy State complaints).

I know---too much to ask of Mr. Anderson.


 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/18 06:30 by ronald321.

Will be interesting when we see details of the modifications.  If refrigeration and food warming equipment remains, perhaps it won’t be so bad...but a cold meal only car is a serious downgrade.

Dave

"Full lounge cars" as in "cross country cafe".

Posted from Android

gbmott Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>  
> I take this as potential good news, depending on
> just what the conversion entails .  On-board food
> preparation is dead (it's the 21st Century in case
> you missed it) and to be really useful the
> kitchens on the V2 diners need to be reconfigured
> to better accommodate shore-based catering, much
> like on an airplane.  Hopefully this will also
> include some provision for efficient take-away
> service such as on a current Amdinette/Amcafe. 
> Done right, the reconfigured cars could
> significantly upgrade food/lounge service on
> longer day trains like the Palmetto and others. 
> If the cars on LD trains were reconfigured as
> roughly 1/2 dining and 1/2 lounge and access were
> restricted to sleeping car passengers it would
> allow service of meals equivalent to airline
> international 1st class while providing a
> dedicated lounge area for sleeping car
> passengers.  I want to emphasize "done right" and
> recognize that is not a given, but the days of
> pies made from scratch and baked on the cars is
> gone.  Below is the menu from a Swissair flight
> from Atlanta to Zurich.  It was prepared in the
> Flight Kitchen at Atlanta Hartsfield Airport and
> could almost as easily have been delivered to the
> Amtrak station and put on 20.  My point is that I
> think our time is better spent trying to shape the
> future than moaning about the past.
>
> Gordon
>
>
>
>
>
>  

Well said Gordon.

Well stated and completley on-point, let's start thinking of what could be and not what had been.

Wow, a thoughtful post!

UP951West Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, yes. Amtrak ought to be able to bring in
> more revenue selling alcoholic beverages and
> snacks with one employee than in service  as a
> money losing diner with a full staff . Lounges are
> good at making the time pass faster, even if you
> don't " let alcohol touch your
> lips " as the old time teetotalers use to say.

While understandable, I do see a problem with the practice on several
trains where the drink/snack service on a lounge car is closed for over
an hour on several trains due to the attendant having his lunch in the diner!
While I'm not disputing whether or not you need two crew members to man
the snack service, they do need to allow for coverage for breaks, meals, etc.

gbmott Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>  
> I take this as potential good news, depending on
> just what the conversion entails .  On-board food
> preparation is dead (it's the 21st Century in case
> you missed it) and to be really useful the
> kitchens on the V2 diners need to be reconfigured
> to better accommodate shore-based catering, much
> like on an airplane.  Hopefully this will also
> include some provision for efficient take-away
> service such as on a current Amdinette/Amcafe. 
> Done right, the reconfigured cars could
> significantly upgrade food/lounge service on
> longer day trains like the Palmetto and others. 
> If the cars on LD trains were reconfigured as
> roughly 1/2 dining and 1/2 lounge and access were
> restricted to sleeping car passengers it would
> allow service of meals equivalent to airline
> international 1st class while providing a
> dedicated lounge area for sleeping car
> passengers.  I want to emphasize "done right" and
> recognize that is not a given, but the days of
> pies made from scratch and baked on the cars is
> gone.  Below is the menu from a Swissair flight
> from Atlanta to Zurich.  It was prepared in the
> Flight Kitchen at Atlanta Hartsfield Airport and
> could almost as easily have been delivered to the
> Amtrak station and put on 20.  My point is that I
> think our time is better spent trying to shape the
> future than moaning about the past.
>
> Gordon

Thank you for the clear explanation and reasoning. 

A question comes to my mind. I am not in the restaurant business. For the airline example given I am assuming the time from food leaving the flight kitchen to the plane departing the gate is 4 hours. It is then consumed over the course of a transatlantic flight, say 9 hours eastbound from gate to gate. 

Is all the food sent out refrigerated, then heated, if necessary, on the plane?

I asked because is this was done for say the Southwest Chief all the food would need to sent to the train refrigerated and then heated as necessary. Enough food for the the 2 to 3 days of trip. Can the way airlines do it be applied to the Southwest Chief with stocking the kitchen only at origin terminal?



 

nm2320 Wrote:

> I asked because is this was done for say the
> Southwest Chief all the food would need to sent to
> the train refrigerated and then heated as
> necessary. Enough food for the the 2 to 3 days of
> trip. Can the way airlines do it be applied to the
> Southwest Chief with stocking the kitchen only at
> origin terminal?
>
Wouldn't it be possible to replenish the stock in Kansas City or Albuquerque?

But a separate question -- Amtrak asked for RFPs re totally rethinking its food service. Before converting these diners, wouldn't be better to wait and see what those proposals entail?
 

symph1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> nm2320 Wrote:
>
> > I asked because is this was done for say the
> > Southwest Chief all the food would need to sent
> to
> > the train refrigerated and then heated as
> > necessary. Enough food for the the 2 to 3 days
> of
> > trip. Can the way airlines do it be applied to
> the
> > Southwest Chief with stocking the kitchen only
> at
> > origin terminal?
> >
> Wouldn't it be possible to replenish the stock in
> Kansas City or Albuquerque?
>
> But a separate question -- Amtrak asked for RFPs
> re totally rethinking its food service. Before
> converting these diners, wouldn't be better to
> wait and see what those proposals entail?
>  

Something I had brought up in a previous thread as well. Any re-design likely voids warranties on these cars, but Amtrak may find it easier to just accept and eat that cost. I've only heard of RFI's being issued, not RFP's regarding Amtrak F&B service. That is request for information - basically an outside consulting report on how to best align food and beverage service for the 21st century passenger rail operation - be it corridor or long distance train.