Passenger Trains > Texas HSR update

Story from Dallas :

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/the-texas-bullet-train-now-looks-likely-heres-what-to-expect/287-617806536



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/18 05:05 by WrongWayMurphy.

Another Story from Houston paper :

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Houston-Dallas-Texas-bullet-train-construction-13427831.php?utm_campaign=email-tablet&utm_source=CMS%20Sharing%20Button&utm_medium=social

Makes way more sense than the CA boondoggle....actually running between two major population centers. 

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> Makes way more sense than the CA
> boondoggle....actually running between two major
> population centers. 

I thought San Franciso and Los Angeles were major population centers, which are the endpoints when the project is finished. The Texas project seems to be sound at this point, however.

Kim Heusel



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/18 05:34 by KimHeusel.

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> Makes way more sense than the CA
> boondoggle....actually running between two major
> population centers. 

How does it make sense? Are they going to put stations where businesses with travelers are (downtown Houston, west out the I-10 and Westpark corridor)? Doesn’t sound like it. That means last mile travel times of 60 minutes or more. No one walks in Houston and there is no transit.

It’s a 3 hour drive from the Woodlands to Dallas. I expect most people are going to keep on driving.

Posted from iPhone

KimHeusel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> andersonb109 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Makes way more sense than the CA
> > boondoggle....actually running between two
> major
> > population centers. 
>
> I thought San Franciso and Los Angeles were major
> population centers, which are the endpoints when
> the project is finished. The Texas project seems
> to be sound at this point, however.
>
> Kim Heusel

Moot. CAHSR will never reach Los Angeles. It will never be completed per the original bond specs.

KimHeusel Wrote:
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> andersonb109 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Makes way more sense than the CA boondoggle....actually running between two major population centers. 
>
> I thought San Francisco and Los Angeles were major population centers, which are the endpoints when the project is finished.
> The Texas project seems to be sound at this point, however.
>
> Kim Heusel

Instead of a flat map, look at the topography:

Between Dallas and Houston there are no major mountain ranges, and trains can make high speed through their run, just like the Eurostar in France. Also, the gentle grades between Dallas and Houston. mean that track laying costs are lower.  

North of LA there is a significant mountain range, the Tehachapis,  traversed by Interstate-5 that is known as "The Grapevine." From the highest point at Tejon Pass north to Grapevine Canyon, the highway elevation drops over 2600 feet  in 12 miles.
CAHSR will need much more money to go across that, and I cannot imagine doing 150+ MPH on that downgrade....at least not more than once. 

Years ago I rode in the head end of the Cardinal between Staunton and Charlottesville, Virginia, crossing the Blue Ridge Mountains between the two towns. Coming east down the mountain into Charlottesville the track was relatively straight and paralleled Interstate-64.  From the cab, I could look over at I-64 and see cars and semis booming down the mountain at 65+ MPH. Meanwhile, we were drifting down grade at 20-25 MPH with the dynamic brakes cut in and the engineer keeping a watchful eye on our speed.  CAHSR will have the same situation on the Grapevine route, if it ever gets there. 

I think Texas HSR will be up and running long before CAHSR, and since it is privately funded, it's more likely to turn a profit.  



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/18 10:16 by hazegray.

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> Makes way more sense than the CA
> boondoggle....actually running between two major
> population centers. 

Please open up an Atlas and you will see that the route of the CA HSR connects the two biggest cities in the state--LA and San Francisco. Trust me, if it makes it to Bakersburg, it will make to LA.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/18 10:22 by RRBaron.

Note - The Grapevine is named for its route up Grapevine Canyon which is named for the grapevines that grow there.

I would like to point out that every single railroad in the US was built in the late 1800's, by hand. Those mountain routes all could be made faster if there was new routes selected, modern construction equipment used, and no lawyers, NIMBY's , and other enviromental wackos to oppose the new routes. The entire frieght railroad system in the US needs to be updated. New US land grants should be looked at.

As for Dallas to Houston, this is a natural. Flat land, easy to work with. I am curios where the two end point stations will be.

RRBaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> andersonb109 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Makes way more sense than the CA
> > boondoggle....actually running between two
> major
> > population centers. 
>
> Please open up an Atlas and you will see that the
> route of the CA HSR connects the two biggest
> cities in the state--LA and San Francisco. Trust
> me, if it makes it to Bakersburg, it will make to
> LA.

San Fran ranks #4 in pop. They just think they're # 2.

2017 pop ests, millions:
Los Angeles  4.0
San Diego  1.4
San Jose  1.0
San Francisco  0.9



https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk

Tiajuana is about 1.4 M.  Might be better to end HSR sooner and spend some of those funds on incremental improvements to the LA - SAN/TJ corridor.

 

CPRR Wrote:
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>
> As for Dallas to Houston, this is a natural. Flat land, easy to work with.

Note that Orlando to Miami is also a natural, for the very same reasons. 

abyler Wrote:
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> a
> How does it make sense? Are they going to put
> stations where businesses with travelers are
> (downtown Houston, west out the I-10 and Westpark
> corridor)? Doesn’t sound like it. That means
> last mile travel times of 60 minutes or more. No
> one walks in Houston and there is no transit.
>
> It’s a 3 hour drive from the Woodlands to
> Dallas. I expect most people are going to keep on
> driving.
>
> Posted from iPhone

Just one guy's opinion, but if there's not a very good local transit network, a train that doesn't go from central business district to central business district is DOA. 

hazegray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CPRR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > As for Dallas to Houston, this is a natural.
> Flat land, easy to work with.
>
> Note that Orlando to Miami is also a natural, for
> the very same reasons. 

Until one of those sink holes opens up and swallows a train!

Local transit connections is what makes Japan and Europe HSR and conventional rail usable.  The cities were planned and built with local transit many moons ago..

Seems much of the so called planning for stations is nothing more then an "Airport location" where the auto remains king to reach.  So if we are 60 minutes from HSR,  maybe air would remain the best for some metro area's.

 

Long time in coming.

The station location on the Dallas end connects with DART (Dallas Area Rapid Transit) which spreads across Dallas.

Not sure about the Houston end.

Connections are pretty easy these days with services such as Uber.  I ve watched people talk about high speed trains in the US for 50 years.  So far nothing.  California is under construction and Texas is getting close to construction. Complaining about terminal locations before anything is built is part of the reason nothing has been built.  Someone needs to finally get something up and running and then worry about the hardest to build last mile.  

I don’t think Woodlands to Dallas is still a 3 hour drive anymore.  The highway is getting full.  Anyway who would want to drive both ways in the same day and attend a meeting in between.  High speed rail will make that possible.  If built Dallas to Houston will be the true test bed for high speed.  California being a government project is going to cost more and take longer to construct and be harder to break even on operations.

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> Makes way more sense than the CA
> boondoggle....actually running between two major
> population centers. 
Both projects make sense, one is just being managed a lot better than the other.

Duna Wrote:
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> San Fran ranks #4 in pop. They just think they're
> # 2.
>
> 2017 pop ests, millions:
> Los Angeles  4.0
> San Diego  1.4
> San Jose  1.0
> San Francisco  0.9
>

Look instead at Metropolitan Statistical Areas (2010 Census)

San Francisco 4,335,391 (and that doesn't include Silicon Valley)
San Jose        1,832,911
Total Bay Area 6,168,302

San Diego      3,095,313

I think the Bay Area is right to say they're number 2 in California, just from the perspective of population. San Diego is a pretty sleepy town compared to San Francisco.