Passenger Trains > Letter from Amtrak Board Chair to NARP

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/18 01:26 by GenePoon.

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You copied page one twice and left out page 3

Posted from Android

Gene, thank you as always for sharing.   Let’s see how much constructive discussion comes from this versus folks trying to hold onto unrelalistc expectations of a limited budget.  

Thanks, Kevin.  Fixed now.

John, to promote discussion is why I posted it without any comment...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/18 01:28 by GenePoon.

This guy could replace Sarah Sanders....great spin.

Not the same on board service model since 1971!
1.) The long distance coach seats were more comfortable & reclined further, back then.
2.) The bathrooms were bigger.
3.) Lounge cars were fancier and had more atmosphere.
4.) Some 1st class lounges were still available, along with a greater variety of sleeping accomodations.
5.) True dining car service.
6.) Coach attendants for each car.  I feel the personal one on one service has been degraded, at least in coach.

I wish Amtrak would provide hard evidence of people's want of "new choices" about eating on the train.
To me, it seems a bit cotrived, and is being used to justify labor cost savings.
I have never experienced someone saying, they didn't want to eat in the diner, becasue of sitting with strangers!
There have been changes in food trends, but by & large, the wide range of restaurant options is still available on the
street.  This includes, food trucks, fast food, local hometown diners, popular mid priced chains like Applebees, and fancy sit down
restaurants!  They all seem to be surviving, why not Amtrak's diners?

I don't know if Amtrak has done detailed market research on what passengers expect from a dining car, but each car has a cash register.

People here have said that 80% of passengers use the dining car. Others have said few coach customers use the car. Complaints abound about prices.

The model currently in use doesn't scale well. Serving breakfast from 6 to 10, lunch from 11.30 to 3.30, and dinner from 5 to 9 would maximize revenue but trigger multiple staff issues.

Posted from Android

I assume Amtrak has already established several committees, nationwide, made up of union employees
who are providing input on what is needed in any new car orders.

Mechanical 
On Board Services
Transportation,
etc.

Or is HQ doing it all by themselves?

Those were “several” of Matthews suggestions/ areas of concerns. I wonder what points Corcia didn’t respond to. National Network? The SWC? The V2 order? Do we have Matthews letter? We might learn more from what Coscia didn’t say.  Coscia points out Amtrak will spend their limited Federal resources on “the most relevant solutions”, sounds like more of their convoluted corridors at the expense of the Network. Yes he talks about daily service of the SSL and Cardinal but I think that was strategically put in just to sound cooperative.

The letter overall is scary in the fact if this management can put together some plausible, respectful presentation to Congress in the next reauthorization maybe their skewed facts and lies will be accepted. Anderson is doing his best to destroy long distance ridership and numbers. Anderson doesn’t have the temperament to deal with criticism as witnessed in his past tantrums to Congress so he’ll stay the bad guy behind the scenes while Coscia is Amtrak’s public face like in the above letter. Good guy, bad guy.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/18 08:28 by Flyer92122.

Jim Mathews may not realize it, but he just received the classic "Pat on the Head" letter - with the tone of "there, there, there, we agree with everything you say, so stop barking.

I hope Mathews realizes that Anthony Cosica answered Jim's valid points with the classic BS replies of: "we're having conversations"; we're exploring concepts"; "we're continuing to evaluate".

Examples (paraphrased, of course)

.  We admit Amfleet & "bi-levels" are at the end of their useful lives--but we have a "fleet strategy"., we're "evaluating" (Calif. & Ill. needed no fleet strategy - they ordered  new Brightline coached for Amtrak trains).

.  Embracing Customers -  sure we are,  we put new carpets in some old Amfleet cars, but we're also destaffing stations; dropping lounge cars, and tried to"Bustatute" the Chief.

.  Latness - we admit lateness is "an existential threat to the service we provide..." -- but we are "having conversations" - nothing official of course. No hearings or anything like that

To me, this letter is a classic example of patting critics on the head with a mink glove - while continuing to downgrade trains and service.

Englewood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I assume Amtrak has already established several
> committees, nationwide, made up of union
> employees
> who are providing input on what is needed in any
> new car orders.

It was a different world back then, and the folks who did it are gone, but Amtrak in Seattle was almost unrecognizable as Amtrak in the 90s while we were developing the Cascades service. When the Talgo trains were purchased, the local superintendent cleared out space in King Street Station for the construction of a 1:1 scale model of a Talgo coach and a Talgo Bistro (lunch counter in old days terminology) car. In the coach, they experimented with various seats and arrangements and built configuraitons of the restrooms to develop the best arrangement. Folks with any and all types of mobility problems were invited to come try the layout with their walkers, manual wheel chairs and power wheel chairs, making changes until everyone who tried it was happy.

The Bistro model was complete in every detail. The OBS folks "worked" it, getting the counter, storage, and appliances down to what worked best for them.

When everyone was happy with the arrangements, the contract went out to Talgo to build it. Amtrak Back East was not happy with the way it was done. They were also not happy with the nanstandard non-Amfood on the trains. Don't forget,. the Cascades was 403(b) and Amtrak owned part of the service.

Alas, all of the folks who made that happen are gone.

TAW

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know if Amtrak has done detailed market
> research on what passengers expect from a dining
> car, but each car has a cash register.
>
> People here have said that 80% of passengers use
> the dining car. Others have said few coach
> customers use the car. Complaints abound about
> prices.
>
> The model currently in use doesn't scale well.
> Serving breakfast from 6 to 10, lunch from 11.30
> to 3.30, and dinner from 5 to 9 would maximize
> revenue but trigger multiple staff issues.
>
> Posted from Android

Here's an overview of the detailed market search for the 21st century and especially 2018; it's not that hard:

A HAPPY crowd of patrons is a WELL fed crowd of patrons. People will pay for good service and good food/beverages. If the train is late, if the people are fed and given drinks, it often leads to less complaints. This is event planning 101, and has lots of crossovers to other venues where crowds are gathered. 

I remember being delayed on a private rail car due to a busted knuckle on a freight train ahead. We were delayed for hours. But everyone had a great time with the atmosphere and the food and beverages kept flowing. Look at the Rocky Mountaineer model as well. If Amtrak wants to cheapen things up on the food and beverage side - the quicker complaints mount up. It's a proven fact. 

It also baffles me, because food service is one of the largest growing industries right now. Not to be mean, but today's population is likely at its "largest" in terms of girth size. People are often looking for that special and unique food experience. Amtrak's got the wrong adjective - contemporary and flexible - for food service. Granted people no longer have say a sandwich for lunch and three course sit down meal for dinner. Dinner is very varied. I even remember my great-grandmother having the "main meal" of the day at 12 noon and then a "light supper." I never did get the difference between "supper" and "dinner" - but she did and supposedly there is a difference. 

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The model currently in use doesn't scale well.
> Serving breakfast from 6 to 10, lunch from 11.30
> to 3.30, and dinner from 5 to 9 would maximize
> revenue but trigger multiple staff issues.
>

In 2002, I rode DB Nachtzug (night train) from Paris to Hanover. At Hanover, I would catch an Intercity to Braunschweig. It was my first trip to Europe.

In Paris, there was no Boarding Process (new to me).
There was no waiting room. There was seating in the trainshed (new to me).
There were all sorts of restaurants and shops, all directly accessible to the trainshed (new to me).
Trains were posted long in advance, including track assignments (new to me).
I watched the operation for a long time and realized that there were no announcements.(new to me)
The yard crew spotted my train and the train crew opened up for boarding as soon as the train was set, quite a while before leaving time (new to me).
Folks were just heading to the train and getting on. (new to me)

It was all new, but then came the shock. The conductor was at the hind end checking tickets. It was the first thing that felt like the way we conduct passenger service. You had to show a ticket to get on. It turns out that the procedure was done on the platform so that there was no need to disturb you (new to me) after getting on.

But then...But then...he asked me what time I would like to be called in the morning (!) for breakfast before getting off. (Beyond new to me, I was surprised). We're getting into Hanover at 0500ish. The dining car is open? He was surprised that I asked. Sure. It's always open. Why would we carry a car on the train and not have it open?

First trip to Europe, so much to see, so much to pay attention to. No way I could just go to sleep. Around 11p, I decided to check out the diner, since it was open. The tables were half (or so) occupied. I had a snack and a glass of wine in a railroad dining car at 90 mph at 11p! Not only that, the ride was smooth, almost like standing still, with speed on curve for these standard cars being higher than we allow for tilting trains. I had been in Paris for a UIC conference on tilting trains - the only American there, of course, then on the way to the Technical University in Braunschweig DE to see how they learn railroading in Germany.

TAW

It's also instructive that airlines sell meal boxes. On a three hour flight, they might sell 20 on a flight of 120 people.

I'd be interested in knowing the range of what people expect, and what they expect to pay for that meal.

Posted from Android

I think some of NARP's priorities are misplaced and without regard to how much money is required, and seem interested in simply running more trains for the sake of it without regard to customer service. Who sets their priorities ?

Why does daily Cardinal take precedence over correcting the terrible transfer situation at Pittsburgh in the middle of the night, which could have been carried out by implementing a cheap Performance Improvement Plan that neither Amtrak nor NARP have ever been interested in, while hardcore Cardinal fans whined about transferring during the day in DC  ? 

Who does daily Sunset take precedence over Pioneer restoration (not saying that it should or should not), while the Lake Shore Ltd and Capitol Ltd ridership and revenue base is on a very slippery slope due to "contemporary dining" along with NS's wretched performance ? 

The Capitol Ltd will be lucky to survive another a year or two with the above situations going on. It was a poor financial and ridership performer before Anderson. As it is the Boston Lake Shore baggage car is gone in January. 
 

With all the stats tossed around, I’ve been curious as to what percentage of the sleeper capacity is used by folks with AGR points versus fare paying, at least on this board seems to be quite a bit of AGR use.     I agree that food service hours should be lengthened, not everyone gets up with the chickens for breakfast, nor eats at the first seating.   As the diner staff is reduced, I would like to see two folks working in the lounge cafe, staggering breaks and a staggered shift to extend hours and have full coverage for that entire period.   

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>  Amtrak Back East was not happy with the way it was done.
> They were also not happy with the nonstandard non-Amfood on the trains. Don't forget,. the
> Cascades was 403(b) and Amtrak owned part of the service.
>
> Alas, all of the folks who made that happen are gone.
>
> TAW

Good summary of inception of Cascades Talgo serivice; "Amtrak Back East" was a little happier because the local Amtrak superintendent, KL, got Washington State to actually buy and pay for 2-3 Talgo trains. 

Actually, the unhappy folks also included the local Amtrak M/E management, who were never pleased at having to maintain the Talgo trains with Talgo management supervising Amtrak unionized employees. 
I was part of a team that evaluated the Talgo maintenance, and quite frankly it was an order of magnitude ahead of Amtrak.  My first introduction came at 12AM (maintenance was done predominantly on 3rd trick) when I asked the Amrak employee on the wheel true machine what was on tap for the evening/morning, and he responded that he was going to turn the wheels on Talgo car number so-and-so.  I asked him why, and he responded that it was nearing its limits. I asked how he knew, and he showed me their records for every wheel set on the five Talgo trainsets.  They routinely tracked wheel conditions and trued the wheels when they started to go out of limits -- a far cry from Amtrak's then prevalent "fix when fail" approach to maintenance.  The employee, a former Navy machinist (smile) obviously enjoyed working in a shop where work was well planned in advance, rather than driven by crisis management.  The same approach was used on other parts of the train, e.g., genset maintenance,  automatic doors, etc.
Over time, I learned to  describe the differences between Amfleet and Talgo as similar to the difference between an old Schwinn bicycle and an "English bike." -- the former took a lot of beating before it failed, while the latter took weekly maintenance (calipers, gearshift, etc.) but was more capable and fun to ride. 

Sadly, your last sentence (underlined above) is accurate....I can't imagine any manager hitiching his career wagon to Andersons star. :-(

Hazegray



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/18 11:40 by hazegray.

How do you amass the huge number of AGR points for a free sleeper trip without paying for such on prior trips ? Purchasing points is not cheap.

Posted from Android

Good point Joe!   I figured you zipped up and down the NEC.