Passenger Trains > Amtrak and the Government shutdown

It appears that air line travel will soon be impeded substantilly by unpaid workers refusing to work for no pay.  Will
Amtrak capitlize upon this opportunity?  Do they have the staff and equipment to run second sections of 19, 29 and 49 or
other trains between popular destintions?  This is a great opportunity for Amtrak to demonstrate the efficiency and
pleasure of long distance travel by train?  Are their managers prepared for this unique opportunity?

The airline man at Amtrak probably doesn't want to undermine his former industry. He has shown at Amtrak he has no regard for revenue, bungles yield management, minimizes consists, and can see only costs. Expect nothing and you won't be disappointed. 

Unfortunately there is almost no overlap between the markets for Amtrak and airline travel.

A passenger or two on the margin is all that can be expected.

Posted from iPhone

People aren’t going to trade an extra hour or two at TSA for a two hour flight for 18 hours on Amtrak. 

You might see a bump up in the corridors, but you aren’t going to get the LA - NYC traveler 

THE TSA seems to be doing a good job in the NY BWI BOS etc airport market. If they collapse, expect to see more NEC business.

Frankly, that buck per mile route is among the few places Amtrak could handle a passenger surge.

Posted from Android

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> The airline man at Amtrak probably doesn't want to
> undermine his former industry. He has shown at
> Amtrak he has no regard for revenue, bungles yield
> management, minimizes consists, and can see only
> costs. Expect nothing and you won't be
> disappointed. 

Curious how you are substantiating your claims of "bungles ield management"? Do you have inside insight you can share? Specific examples?

reindeerflame Wrote:
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> Unfortunately there is almost no overlap between
> the markets for Amtrak and airline travel.
>

Really that little? I've had to fly a couple times in recent weeks and say all these piddly little flights like Chicago-Kalamazoo and Chicago-St. Louis. I realize some of the passengers are connecting through to those cities, but aren't some going just from those city pairs, and wouldn't they need an alternative?

inCHI Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> reindeerflame Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Unfortunately there is almost no overlap
> between
> > the markets for Amtrak and airline travel.
> >
>
> Really that little? I've had to fly a couple times
> in recent weeks and say all these piddly little
> flights like Chicago-Kalamazoo and Chicago-St.
> Louis. I realize some of the passengers are
> connecting through to those cities, but aren't
> some going just from those city pairs, and
> wouldn't they need an alternative?

Outside of the NEC, my experience with research of airline and general traveler behavior is that rail is rarely considered, even in the shorter haul markets like CHI-STL. Most often it's a question of awareness which relates directly to the limited budget AMTK has to work with to promote limited services. Then followed by schedule (inadequate) which is directly related to overal time enroute. Generally speaking, leisure customers that are already booked to travel now via air who are impacted by TSA issues are generally going to use their booked travel. Business travelers who are on travel booked closer in often don't have the time to spend to travel via rail outside of the NEC (partially due to perception) and will opt to drive, or fogo the trip entirely.

The man has it correct...if there was ever an event that would test whether the traveling public would have shunned the airlines for long distance train travel, it was 9/11.  That didn't happen, and a government shutdown won't make it happen.  


reindeerflame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unfortunately there is almost no overlap between
> the markets for Amtrak and airline travel.
>
> A passenger or two on the margin is all that can
> be expected.
>
> Posted from iPhone

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE TSA seems to be doing a good job in the NY BWI
> BOS etc airport market. If they collapse, expect
> to see more NEC business.
>
> Frankly, that buck per mile route is among the few
> places Amtrak could handle a passenger surge.
>
> Posted from Android

Atlanta is feeling it with waits commonly over an hour now. Atlanta has hardly anything for passenger train alternatives unless you can get on The Crescent in one direction or the other.

renf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It appears that air line travel will soon be
> impeded substantially by unpaid workers refusing to
> work for no pay.  Will
> Amtrak capitalize upon this opportunity?  Do they
> have the staff and equipment to run second
> sections of 19, 29 and 49 or
> other trains between popular destinations?  This
> is a great opportunity for Amtrak to demonstrate
> the efficiency and
> pleasure of long distance travel by train?  Are
> their managers prepared for this unique
> opportunity?
As others have stated, Amtrak will only attract a few extra people here and there, primarily on routes where they have frequent service such as here in the east on the Northeast Corridor which of course Amtrak owns.  As we face facts, Amtrak is mismanaged, it has never been properly funded since it began in 1971, and too many people in our country never even consider taking a train any longer.  Even here in the Baltimore area, I have spoken to many folks who have never ridden an Amtrak train and when they are planning a trip, even when going to a place with frequent service, they don't think about Amtrak.  It's a shame but these are the facts.  If Amtrak had quality management and if they were properly funded with more equipment, additional routes, more frequencies, and proper advertisements, then more people would take the trains.
John in White Marsh, Maryland

inCHI Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> reindeerflame Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Unfortunately there is almost no overlap
> between
> > the markets for Amtrak and airline travel.
> >
>
> Really that little? I've had to fly a couple times
> in recent weeks and say all these piddly little
> flights like Chicago-Kalamazoo and Chicago-St.
> Louis. I realize some of the passengers are
> connecting through to those cities, but aren't
> some going just from those city pairs, and
> wouldn't they need an alternative?

Sure, they need an alternative, but Amtrak’s not it.  As I said, except in a handful of cases.

jcoons Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> inCHI Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > reindeerflame Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Unfortunately there is almost no overlap
> > between
> > > the markets for Amtrak and airline travel.
> > >
> >
> > Really that little? I've had to fly a couple
> times
> > in recent weeks and say all these piddly little
> > flights like Chicago-Kalamazoo and Chicago-St.
> > Louis. I realize some of the passengers are
> > connecting through to those cities, but aren't
> > some going just from those city pairs, and
> > wouldn't they need an alternative?
>
> Outside of the NEC, my experience with research of
> airline and general traveler behavior is that rail
> is rarely considered, even in the shorter haul
> markets like CHI-STL. Most often it's a question
> of awareness which relates directly to the limited
> budget AMTK has to work with to promote limited
> services. Then followed by schedule (inadequate)
> which is directly related to overal time enroute.
> Generally speaking, leisure customers that are
> already booked to travel now via air who are
> impacted by TSA issues are generally going to use
> their booked travel. Business travelers who are on
> travel booked closer in often don't have the time
> to spend to travel via rail outside of the NEC
> (partially due to perception) and will opt to
> drive, or fogo the trip entirely.

Very few people on a Chicago-Kalamazoo flight are origin/destination travelers. And anyone who is, is more likely to just drive than take the train, although at least in that corridor Amtrak offers three round trips per day, not just one.

Forget about extra sections of the Lake Shore or other LDTs. Those markets' trains are non-competitive with air travel no matter how inconvenient airport security becomes, and Amtrak doesn't have the equipment anyway.
 

inCHI Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really that little? I've had to fly a couple times
> in recent weeks and say all these piddly little
> flights like Chicago-Kalamazoo and Chicago-St.
> Louis. I realize some of the passengers are
> connecting through to those cities, but aren't
> some going just from those city pairs, and
> wouldn't they need an alternative?

Currently, Amtrak (and passenger trains in the U.S.) compete with the automobile, but I'm sure you know that unfortunate reality. The exception might be certain city pairs on the NEC, where trains can compete with the airlines.

In another thread, MojaveBill mentioned a scenario in the 1960s (airlines strike) when the passenger rail network was more extensive, and the airlines less convenient (and less people owned cars) where people were able to transfer from planes to trains. I'd say those days are over.

Back in the day when airline passenges were able to cancel or reschedule without fees, TSA "outage" would have been a minor inconvenience, but in this day of "discount" airfares, most people get nickled and dimed (multiply by about 1000 for the actual change fees) for that. I've heard no announcements from the airlines for waiver of fees for the gov't shutdown, like they do for major weather delays. I suspect airline passenger are more worried about that nowdays, than finding alternative ways to travel.