Passenger Trains > WaPo: Why US Will Never Have HSR

A pretty rational, unbiased analysis, despite the click-bait title, IMO. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/02/13/why-united-states-will-never-have-high-speed-rail/?tid=ss_mail&utm_term=.43b26b799a23
 

Behind a paywall.

we are over 21 $$ TRILLION in debt AND the amount of people depending on government services INCREASES daily.  can we afford to fund an hsr system?.........

66

There is an excellent article bearing today's date in Railway Age by Jeff Davis entitled "California HSR: 7 Deadly Mistakes". It explains why this project has been doomed to failure and also why other projects aren't necessarily doomed from inception.

hazegray Wrote:
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> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/02/13
> /why-united-states-will-never-have-high-speed-rail
> /?tid=ss_mail&utm_term=.43b26b799a23
 
Jeff Bezos wants a dollar from me to read his paper.for a month. It might be the only dollar in the Universe that he doesn't have but I'm keeping it.
 
 "We’re glad you’re enjoyingThe Washington Post. Get access to this story, and every story, on the web and in our apps with our Basic Digital subscription. Keep reading for  $1"

Lurch_in_ABQ Wrote:
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> hazegray Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/02/13
>
> >
> /why-united-states-will-never-have-high-speed-rail
>
> > /?tid=ss_mail&utm_term=.43b26b799a23
>  
> Jeff Bezos wants a dollar from me to read his
> paper.for a month. It might be the only dollar in
> the Universe that he doesn't have but I'm keeping
> it.
>  
>  "We’re glad you’re enjoyingThe Washington
> Post. Get access to this story, and every story,
> on the web and in our apps with our Basic Digital
> subscription. Keep reading for  $1"

Top header: "Democracy Dies in Darkness" 

A bit ironic. 

Sorry, Lurch, the article isn't worth your dollar; keep it!
My bad. :-(

PS That said, I think the Railway Age article cited bt PRSL in a previous post has some interesting insights (I found it on Google -- California HSR: 7 Deadly Mistakes):

Among them:
Worst Practice #1: Legally defining project parameters in ways that can never be changed. In 2008, California voters approved Proposition 1A, which enacted a new law authorizing construction of the high-speed rail system and authorizing the issuance of $9 billion in bonds to fund planning, design and construction. However, the law enacted by Prop 1A (text here) was exceedingly detailed, and prescribed the route, minimum speed between each set of major destinations, number of stations, headway times and other metrics. And in California, laws enacted by ballot initiative can never be amended by the state legislature without going back to voters (see Article II, section 10 of their constitution). This meant that the project could not evolve to fit budgetary and other realistic constraints without inviting lawsuits based on the text of Prop 1A, which the State Auditor saidcaused many of the construction delays. It is uncertain if California can ever construct a system that meets the terms of Prop 1A, which includes a requirement that the finished system “will not require a local, state or federal operating subsidy.”: 

Lurch_in_ABQ Wrote:
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> hazegray Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/02/13
>
> >
> /why-united-states-will-never-have-high-speed-rail
>
> > /?tid=ss_mail&utm_term=.43b26b799a23
>  
> Jeff Bezos wants a dollar from me to read his paper.for a month. It might be the only dollar in the Universe that he doesn't have but I'm keeping it.
 



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/19 12:39 by hazegray.

HSR is a HUGE waste of money. It appeals to Yuppie types, whio like shiney fast (and expensive) things. It would be a MUCH better investment if that money went to expanding and adding frequencies to our EXISTING Amtrak system.

Steve

goneon66 Wrote:
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> we are over 21 $$ TRILLION in debt AND the amount
> of people depending on government services
> INCREASES daily.  can we afford to fund an hsr
> system?.........
>
We could pay for lots of infrastructure things, including high speed rail with just a couple of percent cut in our annual defense budget!

Ms. McArdle needs to check the facts more carefully. The Acelas do not take eight hours for the Boston to Washington run.
 

curt416 Wrote:
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> Ms. McArdle needs to check the facts more
> carefully. The Acelas do not take eight hours for
> the Boston to Washington run.
>  
Agreed, although she may not know the difference between a regional and an Acela. Some regionals take 7.5 hours to over 8 hours.

Posted from Android

John Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> goneon66 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > we are over 21 $$ TRILLION in debt AND the
> amount
> > of people depending on government services
> > INCREASES daily.  can we afford to fund an hsr
> > system?.........
> >
> We could pay for lots of infrastructure things,
> including high speed rail with just a couple of
> percent cut in our annual defense budget!

well, if we are ABLE to pay for hsr, why are we NOT doing it?????????????????????????????

maybe you should convince california that they can afford hsr..........

66



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/19 13:54 by goneon66.

Lurch_in_ABQ Wrote:

> Jeff Bezos wants a dollar from me to read his
> paper.for a month. It might be the only dollar in
> the Universe that he doesn't have but I'm keeping
> it.
>  
>  "We’re glad you’re enjoyingThe Washington
> Post. Get access to this story, and every story,
> on the web and in our apps with our Basic Digital
> subscription. Keep reading for  $1"

Just $1 to gain access to every article in the Washington Post for 30 days? Sounds like a good deal to me.

Kim Heusel

Acela has been around for almost 20 years.

What % of people in the service area do you suppose have EVER taken Acela? Compared to flown on a plane?

Posted from Android

John Wrote:
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> goneon66 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > we are over 21 $$ TRILLION in debt AND the amount of people depending on government services INCREASES daily.  can we afford to fund an hsr system?.........
> >
> We could pay for lots of infrastructure things, including high speed rail with just a couple of percent cut in our annual defense budget!

Actually, the defense budget is continuing to shrink, and HR expenditures on Social Security, Medicare, etc. are continuing to grow.  

Here's a link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expenditures_in_the_United_States_federal_budget#/media/File:US_Federal_Government_Outlays.png
 

Agree. One of the few postings on this forum that are studied and reasonable. 

John Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> goneon66 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > we are over 21 $$ TRILLION in debt AND the
> amount
> > of people depending on government services
> > INCREASES daily.  can we afford to fund an hsr
> > system?.........
> >
> We could pay for lots of infrastructure things,
> including high speed rail with just a couple of
> percent cut in our annual defense budget!

Yeah but I have other ways to get between the two fixed points. The US military is the only one I have.

Posted from Android

Her article is the usual uninformed view, by someone who "likes the nice trains overseas, and wonders why we don't have them."  

Her statement that major cities are too far apart in the U.S. is totally false.   China completed a high speed train for a 900 mile routing last year, similar to Chicago - New York; New York - Atlanta, etc.    And China does have longer high speed routes.  

We don't have high speed trains because we have been strangled by the oil and auto lobbies for 80 years.  Gas at my corner is $1.99 per gallon.  Ridiculously cheap.  

We could start by making our interstate highway system a toll road system to pay for itself.  We could start with $1.00 / gallon gas tax tomorrow, and keep adding a dollar per year for four years.

Do I think any of this will happen?  No.  Auto and oil interests will choke it off tomorrow.  

SteveThorpe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HSR is a HUGE waste of money. It appeals to Yuppie
> types, whio like shiney fast (and expensive)
> things. It would be a MUCH better investment if
> that money went to expanding and adding
> frequencies to our EXISTING Amtrak system.
>
> Steve

I agree, even people from other countries wonder when they ride Amtrak why we don't have a good national system, and the excuse is "It loses money, we need to get rid of it!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/19 16:22 by ProAmtrak.

MEKoch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Her article is the usual uninformed view, by
> someone who "likes the nice trains overseas, and
> wonders why we don't have them."  
>
> Her statement that major cities are too far apart
> in the U.S. is totally false.   China completed a
> high speed train for a 900 mile routing last year,
> similar to Chicago - New York; New York - Atlanta,
> etc.    And China does have longer high speed
> routes.  
>
> We don't have high speed trains because we have
> been strangled by the oil and auto lobbies for 80
> years.  Gas at my corner is $1.99 per gallon. 
> Ridiculously cheap.  
>
> We could start by making our interstate highway
> system a toll road system to pay for itself.  We
> could start with $1.00 / gallon gas tax tomorrow,
> and keep adding a dollar per year for four years.
>
> Do I think any of this will happen?  No.  Auto
> and oil interests will choke it off tomorrow.  

It took nearly two decades for NJ legislators to raise the gas tax 23 cents a gallon.  Anybody who thinks many state legislatures would rush out to impose gasoline taxes, or impose tolls on highways is delusional.

The French have $5 and $6 taxes on gasoline, tolls on major highways and taxes on automobile engine size.  Proposed increases in the fuel tax has brought rioters into the streets for weeks.