Passenger Trains > "First Amendment Auditors" and railfan photography

Today's Los Angeles Times had an article about a self-identified "First Amendment Auditor" who got into a confrontation with a security guard at a Jewish temple/school and wound up being grazed by a gunshot.  According to the Times article, quoting Brian Levin, Director of the Cal State San Bernardino Center on Hate and Extremism: "These are folks who like to leverage social media by going to public places, where they have a right to be, and testing the reactions to them by property owners and law enforcement."  This sounds like a present day activity that brings to mind railfan photographer encounters with over-zealous railroad employees and "rent-a-cops" going back many years.

Agreed.  This group has been on site at other locations too, but so far I have not seen them.

Some years back I had a one page 'Photographer's Bill of Rights' or something similar; it was published at the time there were a lot of news stories about railfan photographer being harrassed.  It was likely in the years right after 9/11.

Given the heavily armed nut jobs wandering around and killing people, a security guard would be right to be cautious.

Posted from Android

With the UP reportedly abolishing their Police Dept,  what might that mean for we railfan photographers?

Maybe that grouchy UP cop in Tehachapi will get fired, too.  That won't bother me.  I understand he needs to protect trains and assets from  the meth head thieves out there, but you can be effective by observing a railfan vs. very sketchy looking people.

utwazoo Wrote:
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> With the UP reportedly abolishing their Police
> Dept...

False.

The difference here is that these "auditors" are seeking confrontation, while I can't imagine a railfan photographer wanting to do so. If I come on to railroad property, it's because I want photos of locomotives or whatever and to leave unnoticed, not to cause a conflict for its own sake (and furthermore eliminate any future opportunities).   

The UP is just downsizing their police department, just like the SP had done over the years.

If the UP has less police officers around Tehachapi then BNSF would likely step up their efforts in that area.

Gary

Posted from iPhone

utwazoo Wrote:
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> With the UP reportedly abolishing their Police
> Dept,  what might that mean for we railfan
> photographers?

Where did that rumor come from?  Removing their private police force would not make sense as yards and ROWs would quickly become populated wirh homeless encampments. It would be open season for other crimes that local police departments are not setup to handle. 

 

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

they just laid off many special agents, there is no way they would get rid of all of them i suspect, as is they were quite busy according to them, especially in california were generations have train robbers according to them, they go away things may get worse



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/19 01:15 by dan.

First off let's all remember as railfans we are not allowed on RR property without permission. We do have rights on public property but if stopped by law enforcement lets be respectful and cival.
JC

Posted from Android

These "First Amendment" folks are 70% self-promotion, 30% actually giving a s. . .  about a Constitutional right. The corporation I work for has had them show up at multiple facilities just waiting for a security guard or employee to confront them so they can post it up on YouTube and get a few thousand more hits.

Sorry that the individual got winged by an armed guard overzealously confronting them, but most of us know that pestering someone authorized to carry a weapon tends to be a bad idea. My responses tend to be "yes, officer"; even when dealing with railroad, oil refinery, or other critical infrastructure facility security. 

2-10-2

Allow me to change that - 80% self promotion, 20% constitutional rights.

SN711 Wrote:
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> The UP is just downsizing their police department,
> just like the SP had done over the years.
>
> If the UP has less police officers around
> Tehachapi then BNSF would likely step up their efforts in that area.

Do UP police give railfans with cameras a hard time at the Chicago passenger depot and at suburban metra platforms ? 

You would think Metra would have security there

Metra police I don't think are on UP's turf of the ex-C&NW. 

I was hassled by a non-uniformed guy at Olgivie Center last year.
He said it was private property. 
I was taking a picture of the glass ceiling area just before you go out to the tracks.
I've taken some quick pictures of the trains at the bumping posts, but never lingered too long.

The individual who provoked the security guard is a trans-gender woman.
G

this my home town court,  i like this security officer, see how they behave-i am all for photographing trains with out restrictions, but recent news of synagogues and this court getting hassled for no reason...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-0U5Gj6Xew&feature=youtu.be

guess they did this in westminister ,colo and got 40k, some have go fund me's for cash backing   some are professional hooligans, hiding behind the flag if you ask me



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/19 10:28 by dan.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> Do UP police give railfans with cameras a hard time at the Chicago passenger depot . . .

Only when the UP Executive Train is in town - then there's a perimeter manned with security personnel and a physical barrier consisting of a string of Metra bi-levels screening the train (usually on track 1 or 2) from the rest of the train shed.

ExSPCondr Wrote:
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> The individual who provoked the security guard is
> a trans-gender woman.
> G

So what?