Passenger Trains > Winter travel woes for Empire Builder

Mother nature is not being kind to the Empire Builder this winter. I see both the westbounds (#7) are several hours late today, obviously weather related. It looks like they are running today's late builder all the way to the coast. The other westbound is 10 hours late in eastern Montana. Will they turn that train at Spokane or will they run all the way to the coast? To early to tell? I am taking a group to Chicago on Wednesday next week from Montana, hoping mother nature quiets things down a bit.

Empire Builder #7 is not due to Seattle till midnight on 3/15. Then the train has to be serviced in Seattle and turned back around to head out as Train #8. Question though - it looks like #28 hasn't left Portland yet on 3/15. Did the train split at Spokane with #7 heading to Seattle and #27 to Portland? Or did the whole train proceed through to Seattle without splitting? Couldn't get buses out of Spokane?

It splir-departed Spokane at 2:35 pm

My wife is aboard- helping a wheelchair bound friend get from Provo, UT to Libby, MT (5 to 14 to 28).
I’m not sure what will happen when they reach Spokane- I suppose they will connect with the late 7 turning there, leap-frogging the 8 they would have originally joined.
SR

Even without the bad weather, having the train annulled at Spokane seems to happen on more than just the rare occasion. Given that, why can't Amtrak provide another set of equipment in Seattle and Portland, ready to roll? When passengers book a train, the expect a train, not a bus. Hard to believe there aren't enough Superliners around to make up another set.

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> Even without the bad weather, having the train
> annulled at Spokane seems to happen on more than
> just the rare occasion. Given that, why can't
> Amtrak provide another set of equipment in Seattle
> and Portland, ready to roll? When passengers book
> a train, the expect a train, not a bus. Hard to
> believe there aren't enough Superliners around to
> make up another set.

Difficulties in re-positioning, wreck damaged cars, weather related delays, just a few reasons Amtrak probably cannot spare such a set of equipment. 
The LD fleet is already stetched thin. Now, you want them to positon expensive equipment to sit idle most of the time to avoid a bus ride?

That extra trainset briefly was done during the BNSF fracking meltdown 3-4 years ago when the Builder was routinely 12-24 hours behind schedule.
But it is doubtful there is enough equipment left to do it now, with 5/6 also running late and more attrition due to wrecks and normal maintenance rotations.
Putting a Superliner-equipped set on the Winter Park Express, sitting in Denver most of the week,  was probably ill-advised, as it consumed what could have been spare equipment.
The short term solution will be to go to low level equipment on the Capitol Limited.
Long term solution is, of course, to find a vendor able to produce new replacement equipment, particularly for the AutoTrain.
Then ship the AutoTrain equipment to Chicago for relief on western trains.
Not holding breath for any of this to happen.
What likely will happen is one or more of the western trains will have to go tri-weekly.
Builder tself will be more frequently turning at Spokane, with busses or "Lakeshore-like" cross-platform transfers to stub trains.
The "developing" fleet-mismanagement situation was clearly known at Amtrak HQ more than a decade ago, but warning bells were ignored.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/19 07:48 by 79mph.

I had Brian Rosenwall (sp?) on my train onetime and we talked a bit about car shortages. He was on his way to a meeting where he was trying to make a case for daily Sunset service. To do so he needed to come up with, if I remember, 2 complete train sets. He said he had been working hard on this, but was short 1 car, so it probably wasn’t going to happen.
I was I surprised to hear the fleet was so tight, and he laughed- he said it was an understatement.
SR

purchase back the SF hilevel cars

dan Wrote:
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> purchase back the SF hilevel cars

Not enough of them to do any good.

Replace the Capitol Limited with single level cars - WHERE are those cars coming from? Amtrak needs more VIewliner sleepers in order to do this, and an Amtrak Viewliner Diner. They likely need more low density coaches since the Amfleet II's are pressed to the limit. I think Amtrak could find the coaches and the Amtrak Diner-Lite to use as a cafe/lounge car. 

The lack of sleeper and dining cars is the main issue though. I agree that it would likely be the best solution (revert Capitol Limited back to single level) and also restore through service of sleepers/coaches between Chicago-Pittsburgh-NYC. But Amtrak isn't getting enough sleeper output from CAF, and that one SOLE sleeper that was released over a month ago seems to have also migrated to the storage yard at Hialieah, FL. Amtrak has had the Viewliner Diners parked in Hialeah too. They don't need a 1:1 reserve on the 11 Viewliner Diners that are currently operating......I've been patient with Amtrak and this food service plan they've been rolling out, but now it is time to find a role and use for at least 20 of the VIewliner Diners. Amtrak has only kept a reserve of 20% sidelined for servicing and substitution. BUT THESE ARE BRAND NEW UNITS - they should not require any maintenance and major repairs (unless structural related). If they do, they should not have been accepted. And if Amtrak really is replacing equipment in the kitchen area of the diners, HOW LONG does this take. C'mon! Amtrak even has the Viewliner Diner prototype it can keep as a backup reserve IF needed. Use it only if totally desperate since they have not taken out the back booth so it is totally ADA accessible.

Ok, stop rant, back on topic.......

So I think we can forget the single level long distance anything. Be lucky if those 25 Viewliner Sleepers, when delivered, go in to replace the 50 current Viewliner sleepers on a 1:2 basis.  

BEST to replace the Superliner fleet operating on the Auto Train and then disperse the Auto Train Superliner equipment West. The Superliner equipment on the Auto Train is roughly 23 years old. Amtrak did a special equipment order for that train before (mid 1990s), and it likely could get funding to do the same again. It's technically Superliner II equipment with some special lounges and the Deluxe Sleeper (they have 6 in the pool - perfect for allocation to the Southwest Chief equipment pool). It can pull some financials together to show that the train is relatively profitable above the rail most of the year!!! I've seen workpapers where it has been done. This is one way that Amtrak "could" backdoor some Superliner equipment to the existing fleet and also get new equipment for the Auto Train. All of Amtrak's analysis and reports indicate that the Superliners need replacing, so the Auto Train equipment is not exempt!!! That would have to be replaced to.  

If Amtrak CAN get a another trainset in place for the Empire Builder - in winter perhaps - they can do what VIA did when the pre-2010 schedule was in place, rotate the extra trainset in as part of a normal rotation. Thus it doesn't sit idling around. This would mean that each train set gets a 24 hour layover in Portland/Seattle. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/19 10:10 by jp1822.

Dealing with Amtrak procurement pretty much an impossible task.
Guessing that the defacto replacement for Amfleet cars is Siemens, by default.
They seem to be the only capable and proven larger-scale builder of passenger cars in this century.
Off the shelf product, no 10-15 year design and shakedown cruise trying to deal with Amtrak, during which all other potential builders will fall into bankruptcy and go out of business.
Eastern commuters will no doubt become all-Brightline.
Those Amfleets that are suitable for rebuild may remain.

Will Siemens tackle any specialty cars such as sleepers?
Doubtful.
That leaves CAF as the only source for those.
Superliner trans-dorms can still be used as sleepers with low level equipment, assuming the sleeper will always be on the tail  end of the train.
Doubtful Amtrak would want to do that though...too much liability involved in passengers potentially falling down the stairways.
From the standpoint of liability and ADA-compliance, low level is the way to go.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/19 11:21 by 79mph.

Brian was the best hands-on manager Amtrak ever had in recent decades.
As such, he could not be tolerated by the upper management culture.

BoilingMan Wrote:
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> I had Brian Rosenwall (sp?) on my train onetime
> and we talked a bit about car shortages. He was on
> his way to a meeting where he was trying to make a
> case for daily Sunset service. To do so he needed
> to come up with, if I remember, 2 complete train
> sets. He said he had been working hard on this,
> but was short 1 car, so it probably wasn’t going
> to happen.
> I was I surprised to hear the fleet was so tight,
> and he laughed- he said it was an understatement.
>
> SR

dan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> purchase back the SF hilevel cars

They shouldn't of gotten rid of them in the 1ST Place!