Passenger Trains > Superliner coach fleet shrinks

Amtrak is apparently reducing the number of coaches assigned to many Superliner routes this summer because coaches formerly available to satisfy peak traffic demand periods have been leased to state entities for intrastate service.  Can anyone provide the car numbers that have been removed from the national fleet in this manner?  Most have been sent to California, where the need for additional equipment is admittedly great. 

In the meantime, with coach inventory reduced by one third or one half on given routes, yield management strategies will be to increase fares on the remaining seats, in an attempt to protect revenue levels while selling fewer seats.  From a business standpoint, that strategy can be argued as possibly prudent, but from a standpoint of trying to grow ridership and increase Amtrak's overall ridership, it will be a disaster.  Higher fares will force some prospective passengers to other modes, thus artificially discouraging demand in much the same way that arbitrarily high sleeping car charges discourage sellout conditions in all but the most robust ridership periods.
 

Of course, shrink the long distance fleet so the next numbers sent to Congress can be used to demonstrate that no one rides long distance trains. 
(No, this is not sarcasm but the God's truth and most of us on this forum know it to be so.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/19 17:38 by Cumbresfan.

Before the Anderson defenders get started and voice their usual demand for "proof" -- consider this:

No one is FORCING Anderson to lease long haul cars to the States--if he is voluntarily removing capacity in peek periods -  then he is deliberately reducing ridership and revenue.

Such negative actions seem to fit right in with his desire to exit LD trains (as Joe Boardman talked about in Trains Mag.)

Since no other CEO in his right mind would do such a thing -- I consider this "Strong Evidence" he is harming LD trains to prepare for train-offs. (or total discontinuance)

To quote Boardman:  "Amtrak...was created to operate the national network, which they are trying to get out of running on a regular basis".  "Proof" enough for me.

 

The states (California) are paying Amtrak to lease these cars. And you know how fixated Amtrak can be when the money is out! Of course they'll lease the cars!

Where is calif using them?    There are several on the surfliner, and a few on the cap corridor and valley service, but not any great #.    I havent heard anything about Calif needing  a whole bunch more cars.....

Also, is the reduction in coaches for the summer a know stated fact in print, or conjecture and inside talk.

And, could amtk replace  superliner short distance trains with low level cars? , or run some LD trains with low level coaches on the "other side" of the transition car...
Bag-low level coaches-trans/dorm..diner-lounge-biz class-sleepers.....???






 

If I'm not mistaken, the Superliners used by California are primarily ones they paid to rebuild and have use for a fixed period of time after which they'll be returned to Amtrak.  California could use more cars, especially bi-levels, but that's not happening any time soon.  

pdt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where is calif using them?    There are several
> on the surfliner, and a few on the cap corridor
> and valley service, but not any great #.    I
> havent heard anything about Calif needing  a
> whole bunch more cars.....
>
> Also, is the reduction in coaches for the summer a
> know stated fact in print, or conjecture and
> inside talk.
>
> And, could amtk replace  superliner short
> distance trains with low level cars? , or run some
> LD trains with low level coaches on the "other
> side" of the transition car...
> Bag-low level coaches-trans/dorm..diner-lounge-biz
> class-sleepers.....???
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  

Almost every Surfliner has at least one Amtrak painted Superliner coach in the consist.
The one's that the state paid for are painted, but not lettered in either the Surfliner or San Joaquin paint schemes.

In additonal to the cars that California paid to rebuild a few years back, at least 7 cars are leased, including one sightseer lounge car for the Surfliners..

This was done to add an additional set of equipment, for the planned additioal train, now planned for October.
Now 10 sets, including the one low level set.

 

So im still confused.  How many superliners does Calif have?  Maybe a dozen.  And were they leased after last summer or before?  Seems to me is was before last summer, so Seems to me the cars avbl for LD trains wont be any lower this summer than last summer.  At least from Calif use.   IDK.  u tell me. 

Also, what is the coach load facor in the summer?   As much as I hate to do a 6 or 8 hour trip in a full coach...its nicer when there are more cars and they arent jammed with ppl..but from a biz perspective...the object is to have every seat full. 

I'm not defending anything Anderson is doing.  I think he's made some poor  decisions,  I know he doesnt like to be in the leisure travel market.  And congress or whomever is going to have to fight him on LD trains.  As much as I dont like it, he's said from the begining that the only LD trains that he thinks are worth operating in their current form, are the starlight and the Zephyr.  But he's tried to kill the SW chief, and so far, no good.  Next would be the Sunset, and then the Builder, but  If the Chief stays, I think he wont go after the others.   All the rest of the LD trains are basically overnighters, that would go to the pre-made meal plan.

And if youre still worried sick, believe me, u could easily wake up one morning and find that he's decided to step aside.   His objective is to make rail travel into viable, preferred transportation in this country, and not to be involved in Land Cruises.  If he gets too much push back, he will leave.   Worry about what the next guy will do.

As I have said before.....Richard Branson should be running the "Amtrak Liesure travel dept", and Anderson running "Amtrak inter-city"
Why do I type.  No one listens......

 

I think there are about 14 or 15 cars used on the Surfliners.
Including the 3 of the 7 leased cars. 

Maybe about 20 total in California. I know the Heartland Flyer has about 3 or 4. 
I think maybe a small batch is bein used on the Cascades Service.
I think the Pere Marqutte has 3 cars.

I do not remember what other routes have Superliners assigned to them.
Nor.
I do not know how many Coaches were scrapped or how many cars are awaiting repairs in Beech Grove.



 

Jerry Martin
Los Angeles, CA
Central Coast Railroad Festival

Funny, back in the 1970's & 80's, I don't even remember LD trains sellng out! 
There were always plenty of seats, and extra coaches were added during the Summer.
This is back when the coach prices were all the same, no matter what day it was.
I'm more of a ridership numbers guy vs. revenue.  The media, politicians, and rail supporters see
the ridership numbers dropping first, before they can delve deeper into cost/revenue figures. 
Artifically limiting a trains capacity to serve the public is I feel anathema to why Amtrak was created.
More importantly it dampens the prospects for future growth.

pdt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So im still confused.  How many superliners does
> Calif have?  Maybe a dozen.  And were they
> leased after last summer or before?  Seems to me
> is was before last summer, so Seems to me the cars
> avbl for LD trains wont be any lower this summer
> than last summer.  At least from Calif use.  
> IDK.  u tell me. 
>
> Also, what is the coach load facor in the
> summer?   As much as I hate to do a 6 or 8 hour
> trip in a full coach...its nicer when there are
> more cars and they arent jammed with ppl..but from
> a biz perspective...the object is to have every
> seat full. 
>
> I'm not defending anything Anderson is doing.  I
> think he's made some poor  decisions,  I know he
> doesnt like to be in the leisure travel market. 
> And congress or whomever is going to have to fight
> him on LD trains.  As much as I dont like it,
> he's said from the begining that the only LD
> trains that he thinks are worth operating in their
> current form, are the starlight and the Zephyr. 
> But he's tried to kill the SW chief, and so far,
> no good.  Next would be the Sunset, and then the
> Builder, but  If the Chief stays, I think he wont
> go after the others.   All the rest of the LD
> trains are basically overnighters, that would go
> to the pre-made meal plan.
>
> And if youre still worried sick, believe me, u
> could easily wake up one morning and find that
> he's decided to step aside.   His objective is
> to make rail travel into viable, preferred
> transportation in this country, and not to be
> involved in Land Cruises.  If he gets too much
> push back, he will leave.   Worry about what the
> next guy will do.
>
> As I have said before.....Richard Branson should
> be running the "Amtrak Liesure travel dept", and
> Anderson running "Amtrak inter-city"
> Why do I type.  No one listens......
>
>
Your comment about the SW Chief and the Sunset Limited makes me want to ask the question of T.O. members : why is the SW Chief picked on by Anderson to be discontinued instead of the Sunset  Limited ? It seems to me that a train directly connecting the 2nd and the 3rd largest cities in the US should rank higher. Comments welcome. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/19 04:03 by UP951West.

Anderson is incompetent/ inept more importantly he and Gardner are following an agenda that doesn’t make sense. The SWC in my opinion is the most viable LDT in the network it just needs to be marketed. It’s not delay ridden and average speed is faster than driving. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/19 05:46 by Flyer92122.

Which state supported trains are allegedly getting these Superliners?

AutoTrain has a dynamic number of Superliner coaches and sleepers.

More used in peak periods, fewer in off season.

Posted from Android

GP25 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think there are about 14 or 15 cars used on the
> Surfliners.
> Including the 3 of the 7 leased cars. 
>
> Maybe about 20 total in California.

And those have been in place for at least 3-5 years, so this in nothing new, nothing last year, nothing done under Anderson.

Fake news, move along.

Little dumbfounded as to what state corridor trains will be getting these Superliner coaches. Perhaps California, but they have been running six car bi-level Surfliner trainsets with mix of Pacific Surfliner cars and Superliners. They also have some single level trainsets in reserve - both in southern CA on the Pacific Surfliner and in the Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin. So that should be interesting to watch. 

Nonetheless, this would be a good tIme for Amtrak to evaluate its Superliner sleeper consist and Superliner Trans/Dorm Sleepers to ensure they can maximize sleeper sales during this coach redux. Since coach seating will be somewhat limited, Amtrak should try to ensure all its sleeper space is sold out, including the roomettes in the Superliner Trans/Dorm sleeper. Perhaps the crew would be better off in the lower level of the regular Superliner sleepers, and then the ENTIRE Trans/Dorm sleeper has its rooms opened up for revenue space. That car has the MOST roomettes of anything Amtrak has out there!

Its difficult politically to eliminate or reduce service to several of the other top-ten population cities...Houston was the 4th largest at least before the hurricane.
San Antonio, Tucson, Phoenix all top-tier.
El Paso coming on strong.
Do not discount the political power in Texas, which now apparently once again is becoming a toss-up powerhouse state in national elections.
Way more electoral votes than Kansas.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/19 11:10 by 79mph.

The reason he went after the SWC is simple.   Amtk  facing having to maintain the Raton pass line if BNSF gives it up, as they say they want to do.   Factoring in the cost of maintenance, the SWC lost the most money per passenger of any of the LD trains.  Amtk would also be facing a large upcoming cost of having to maintain the line.

Rather than saying to the states..."come up w some money, or we will discontinue the train thru raton".  He just said "we are planning to discontinue the train thru raton."    Good move to get ppl off their asses and do something?  or just overkill and bad will with the states?    U decide.

Seems money has showed up for the train....But I'd love to hear Andersons current thinking.  What is plan B?

The SW Chief was a unique situation running on track of a host railroad that the host railroad no longer used, didn't have qualified crews to run on, and Amtrak was left holding the bag, like the Santa Fe Main leaving Chicago toward Joliet, but that had a workaround, as did leaving the Fort Wayne Line, and numerous routings of the Cardinal though Indiana over the earlier decades. 

Anderson saw a vulnerability and went for its jugular, initially also used PTC as a weapon, saying they won't run even on PTC-exempted trackage, which then brought a huge response from Vermont.. His next target could be the Eagle/Sunset system. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/19 15:05 by joemvcnj.