Passenger Trains > Crescent

I caught a glimpse of the northbound Crescent in Pearl River, LA this morning quite by accident after doing some fishing in the swaps around there. This is the first time I've seen it and the entire consist was backwards; that is, the coaches were behind the locomotives, followed by lounge, then sleepers then finally the baggage car. Is that the way it always runs north? I've ridden the City of New Orleans before and it's always in the correct order regardles of which direction it is going so I assumed there is a wye somewhere close to Union Station to be able to turn trains.

All of the Sunnyside-based LD trains have run this way for the past few years.

Dave

I'd wish they put the baggage cars in the front. Besides horn noise, better protection to coach passengers in crashes.
Is the fish-tailing situation on the rear sleeper really that bad. ?
Do cab cars in California or 110MPH Keystones fish-tail when pulled ? 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/19 13:27 by joemvcnj.

Rmosele Wrote:
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> I caught a glimpse of the northbound Crescent in
> Pearl River, LA this morning quite by accident
> after doing some fishing in the swaps around
> there. This is the first time I've seen it and the
> entire consist was backwards; that is, the coaches
> were behind the locomotives, followed by lounge,
> then sleepers then finally the baggage car. Is
> that the way it always runs north? I've ridden the
> City of New Orleans before and it's always in the
> correct order regardles of which direction it is
> going so I assumed there is a wye somewhere close
> to Union Station to be able to turn trains.
Must have been several years since you've seen the Crescent, cause the train has been running like this for quite some time, both north and south..

What are you talking about...hunting?  No, not going out and shooting stuff, but rather when a railcar rocks side to side on the horizontal axis?  And what does the baggage car being on the rear do for reducing horn noise?


joemvcnj Wrote:
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> I'd wish they put the baggage cars in the rear.
> Besides horn noise, better protection to coach
> passengers in crashes.
> Is the fish-tailing situation on the rear sleeper
> really that bad. ?
> Do cab cars in California or 110MPH Keystones
> fish-tail when pulled ? 

I meant to say baggage in front, not rear. Fishtailing of the rear car some say is an issue 

I'll say it definitely looks better with the larger-profile cars up front. It's the last priority I know, and with the dumb Phase IVb/Phase VI(?) mixing of the new Viewliners with the old equipment, aesthetics are a lost cause anyways.

chess Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rmosele Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I caught a glimpse of the northbound Crescent
> in
> > Pearl River, LA this morning quite by accident
> > after doing some fishing in the swaps around
> > there. This is the first time I've seen it and
> the
> > entire consist was backwards; that is, the
> coaches
> > were behind the locomotives, followed by
> lounge,
> > then sleepers then finally the baggage car. Is
> > that the way it always runs north? I've ridden
> the
> > City of New Orleans before and it's always in
> the
> > correct order regardles of which direction it
> is
> > going so I assumed there is a wye somewhere
> close
> > to Union Station to be able to turn trains.
> Must have been several years since you've seen the
> Crescent, cause the train has been running like
> this for quite some time, both north and south..

I've never seen it until today. That's why I was asking.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd wish they put the baggage cars in the front. Besides horn noise, better protection to coach
> passengers in crashes. Is the fish-tailing situation on the rear sleeper
> really that bad. ? Do cab cars in California or 110MPH Keystones
> fish-tail when pulled ? 

On the Swift Stream's recent trip to New Orleans we were behind the baggage car.  Fishtailing was definitely noticeable, more so than I remember from prior trips behind a superliner or regular coach.  I don't think you necessarily get fishtailing in the last car of the train.  I think (but don't really know) that it probably has something to do with the baggage cars being so light.  They're basically hollow boxes, and usually carry minimal luggage.  It's too bad Amtrak has those big baggage cars, instead of baggage/dorms.  On the Crescent, they could accomodate all the checked baggage in 1/4 of the car or less.

On a recent trip on the Silver Star I was surprised how much baggage was in the baggage car - a lot.  Don’t believe it would have worked well with a bag-dorm.

Jim

Jimbo Wrote:
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> On a recent trip on the Silver Star I was
> surprised how much baggage was in the baggage car
> - a lot.  Don’t believe it would have worked
> well with a bag-dorm.
>
> Jim

But doesn't the Silver Star carry a lot of "Snow Birds" who tend to have a lot of luggage because of their planned extended stays?

Gee, some of said the Silver Star has morphed into 2 day trains that happen to run through, but mostly empty overnight. 
I'd like to see an O&D analysis and load factor graph for the entire route station by station..

Again, not trying to be a dork, but the term is "hunting."  In many years in this industry, I've never heard someone call it "fishtailing."  And Swift Stream, I think you are on the money with it being more of a weight issue.  I rode passenger trains in the UK last week, and the first trip had a heavier car type, and the ride was smooth as silk.  The return leg had a lighter car type, something I would almost expect to see as light rail in the US (seemingly the size and weight of transit system cars, such as WMATA and MARTA) and I smacked my head on the window a couple of times while the car was hunting.

Some of the worst hunting I've ever seen in freight trains were always empty boxcars or woodchip hoppers in freight consists doing 50-60 MPH.  It was a pretty scary sight, and made you wonder how the thing was staying on the rails.

For the technicals, take a look at this link.  If you don't like higher math (like me), you'll quickly glaze over.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting_oscillation


swiftstream Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'd wish they put the baggage cars in the front.
> Besides horn noise, better protection to coach
> > passengers in crashes. Is the fish-tailing
> situation on the rear sleeper
> > really that bad. ? Do cab cars in California or
> 110MPH Keystones
> > fish-tail when pulled ? 
>
> On the Swift Stream's recent trip to New Orleans
> we were behind the baggage car.  Fishtailing was
> definitely noticeable, more so than I remember
> from prior trips behind a superliner or regular
> coach.  I don't think you necessarily get
> fishtailing in the last car of the train.  I
> think (but don't really know) that it probably has
> something to do with the baggage cars being so
> light.  They're basically hollow boxes, and
> usually carry minimal luggage.  It's too bad
> Amtrak has those big baggage cars, instead of
> baggage/dorms.  On the Crescent, they could
> accomodate all the checked baggage in 1/4 of the
> car or less.

Hunting is the technical term; fishtailing is a non-technical way of referring to a vehicle swaying side-to-side.  Fishtailing caused by wheel hunting, maybe.

There were a lot of people overnight on a recent trip.  Pretty full from Tampa and a lot of turnover at Columbia, SC, for example.

Unfortunately the salads were sold out.  No resupply in Miami.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gee, some of said the Silver Star has morphed into
> 2 day trains that happen to run through, but
> mostly empty overnight. 
> I'd like to see an O&D analysis and load factor
> graph for the entire route station by station..

Can anyone answer this as I asked above:

Do California cab cars or 110MPH Keystones cab cars (former Metroliners) fish-tail when pulled ?  
( I wouldn't consider VL sleeping cars to be particulalry light weight). 
 

swiftstream Wrote:
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> Hunting is the technical term; fishtailing is a
> non-technical way of referring to a vehicle
> swaying side-to-side.  Fishtailing caused by
> wheel hunting, maybe.

I've only heard fishtailing used by truck drivers. Talking about a trailer that doesn't want to play nice.

I took a look at my picture of the Cresent from January 29 2015 and it shows the coaches, diner, sleeper, Heritage Baggage configuration. It is weird the first time you see it if you haven't seen it in a while. 

The term 'Hunting' was what we always used or heard form other railway representatives. It was actually scary to see empty unit potash trains with all the cars hunting while you were on the adjacent siding. 

Jim