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Date: 05/12/19 10:56
Amtrak Hudson River tunnels
Author: raytc1944

Saw another thread that Hoboken has high water.  Anyone know what the rain situation is in New York area?  I'm worried about another "Sandy" situation in the Amtrak Hudson River tunnels as I'm going to Boston from Philadelphia on early Amtrak train #190.



Date: 05/12/19 11:18
Re: Amtrak Hudson River tunnels
Author: joemvcnj

We are getting 1.5 " of rain today and tomorrow. There could be some localized street flooding, but this is not Irene or Sandy by any means.

You can keep an eye on this as an indicator:
https://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=phi&gage=bdkn4



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/19 11:18 by joemvcnj.



Date: 05/12/19 11:29
Re: Amtrak Hudson River tunnels
Author: Lackawanna484

Amtrak has pumps to relieve water problems in the East and North River tunnels.

Posted from Android



Date: 05/12/19 11:43
Re: Amtrak Hudson River tunnels
Author: raytc1944

Thanks



Date: 05/13/19 09:27
Re: Amtrak Hudson River tunnels
Author: knotch8

What a neat link.  Thanks.

Superstorm Sandy was a downgraded hurricane, which had high winds pushing the ocean water into New York Harbor, which found its way into the low-lying tidal areas of Queens.  Coupled with the torrential rains accompanying any tropical storm or hurricane, the creeks had nowhere to drain, since the harbor waters were being pushed by the winds, so the water backed up and found any place to go down, which included the East River tunnels and the various subway tunnels.

The same thing happens on a smaller scale with any nor'easter in the New York area, where the winds from the northeast push the ocean/harbor tides inland, causing flooding along the Hudson Line and other low-lying areas. Nor'easters typically don't affect the Hudson and East River tunnels because their openings are on higher ground, but just not high enough for Superstorm Sandy.



Date: 05/13/19 09:34
Re: Amtrak Hudson River tunnels
Author: joemvcnj

This was another reason it was "downgraded" from Hurricane to Superstorm, as I was told my my insurance company rep.. A named Hurricane has insurance implications in which insurance companies have a loophole to greatly expand deductibles for building damage, beyond what your policy states. Governor Christie pushed for that designation, which pissed off the insurance companies, and helped the constituency, one of the few times in his 2 terms he did something beneficial for consumers. 



Date: 05/13/19 09:46
Re: Amtrak Hudson River tunnels
Author: Lackawanna484

The samr thing just happened with Hurricane Michael's re-designation.  The 2018 hurricane came ashore as a Cat-4.

However, recent re-examination decided it was a Cat-5, and thus deserving of more FEMA assistance.



Date: 05/13/19 09:57
Re: Amtrak Hudson River tunnels
Author: Jishnu

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The samr thing just happened with Hurricane
> Michael's re-designation.  The 2018 hurricane
> came ashore as a Cat-4.
>
> However, recent re-examination decided it was a
> Cat-5, and thus deserving of more FEMA assistance.

Political maneuvering can go both ways when it comes to storms. The odd thing about Hurricane Michael is that when building codes were revised in Florida based on storm strength expectations, the folks in Florida panhandle pulled out all stops to get their building codes downgraded to be weaker claiming that strong storms do not hit outside of the peninsula. So it turns out now that we in Brevard County have 145mph (or something like that) requirement while the area hit by Michael does not. The results are well, not that good. It also turns out that historically their claim is not sustainable. But when you have strong politicians on your side. Who cares?



Date: 05/13/19 10:23
Re: Amtrak Hudson River tunnels
Author: Lackawanna484

Jishnu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
(SNIP)
>
> Political maneuvering can go both ways when it
> comes to storms. The odd thing about Hurricane
> Michael is that when building codes were revised
> in Florida based on storm strength expectations,
> the folks in Florida panhandle pulled out all
> stops to get their building codes downgraded to be
> weaker claiming that strong storms do not hit
> outside of the peninsula. So it turns out now that
> we in Brevard County have 145mph (or something
> like that) requirement while the area hit by
> Michael does not. The results are well, not that
> good. It also turns out that historically their
> claim is not sustainable. But when you have strong
> politicians on your side. Who cares?

Yes.,

When Conrail decided to run double stacks south of 69th Street in North Bergen NJ, it faced a similar problem.  The former Erie, and NYS&W tracks ducked under the Northeast Corridor just west of the tunnel portal. In a swamp.  So, when Conrail decided to drop the track level, it had to build a "bath tub" to get the six or seven feet of head room.  And a very robust and capable pumping system to keep the swamp out.

It's worked so far, but it isn't cheap.  But it does prove you can't fool with Mother Nature

The one guy who actually built to Miami - Dade standards in Panama City Beach FL is the only guy who had a house standing after the storm.  Everyone else is standing on the FEMA give-out line.



Date: 05/13/19 16:32
Re: Amtrak Hudson River tunnels
Author: chess

knotch8 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What a neat link.  Thanks.
>
> Superstorm Sandy was a downgraded hurricane, which
> had high winds pushing the ocean water into New
> York Harbor, which found its way into the
> low-lying tidal areas of Queens.  Coupled with
> the torrential rains accompanying any tropical
> storm or hurricane, the creeks had nowhere to
> drain, since the harbor waters were being pushed
> by the winds, so the water backed up and found any
> place to go down, which included the East River
> tunnels and the various subway tunnels.
>
> The same thing happens on a smaller scale with any
> nor'easter in the New York area, where the winds
> from the northeast push the ocean/harbor tides
> inland, causing flooding along the Hudson Line and
> other low-lying areas. Nor'easters typically don't
> affect the Hudson and East River tunnels because
> their openings are on higher ground, but just not
> high enough for Superstorm Sandy.
Here in Northeast NJ and NYC, we got very little rain from Sandy. All the flooding in Hoboken and the Hudson river tunnels was from the extremely high tide. Hurricane Irene dumped lots of rain in the area..



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