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Passenger Trains > Amazing inside look of next generation of the Acela


Date: 06/12/19 21:10
Amazing inside look of next generation of the Acela
Author: amtrakbill




Date: 06/13/19 11:44
Seat Width and Pitch?
Author: 79mph

One of the problems with ADA accessibility and "upgraded coach amenities" always seems to be the  loss of traditionally comfortable rail passenger seating.
The aisle may be wider, but at whose expense?
Does anyone on the board know what the seat width, spacing, and pitch situation is going to be?
How does it compare to legacy seating in now-retired Budd-built or Pullman Standard Heritage cars?
How  will it compare to Acela standard "airline" type seating?



Date: 06/13/19 12:31
Re: Seat Width and Pitch?
Author: Lackawanna484

BrightLine coach class has two by two seating, decent size aisles, and ADA compliance.  First class is positively delightful.

Picture 1 is coach class

Picture 2 is first class.  BrightLine has names (Select, Smart, etc) for each.






Date: 06/13/19 19:20
Re: Seat Width and Pitch?
Author: Tower_A-20

That looks nice.

Erik Leeper
Chicago, IL



Date: 06/13/19 19:47
Re: Seat Width and Pitch?
Author: another_view

79mph Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of the problems with ADA accessibility and
> "upgraded coach amenities" always seems to be
> the  loss of traditionally comfortable rail
> passenger seating.
> The aisle may be wider, but at whose expense?
> Does anyone on the board know what the seat width,
> spacing, and pitch situation is going to be?
> How does it compare to legacy seating in
> now-retired Budd-built or Pullman Standard
> Heritage cars?
> How  will it compare to Acela standard "airline"
> type seating?

What difference does any of that make? It’s the law, Amtrak does not have any alternative, they must comply on any new equipment acquisitions. It’s the same reason that the sets are costing approximately 25% more than in Europe, Amtrak must comply with Buy America provisions.



Date: 06/13/19 19:56
Re: Seat Width and Pitch?
Author: Duna

another_view Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> What difference does any of that make? It’s the
> law, Amtrak does not have any alternative, they
> must comply on any new equipment acquisitions.
> It’s the same reason that the sets are costing
> approximately 25% more than in Europe, Amtrak must
> comply with Buy America provisions.



Also MBE (Minority Business Enterterprise) and WBE (Women Business Enterprise) requirements.

You must comply. This is America, after all.

Will these trains have lactation facilities?



Date: 06/13/19 21:20
Re: Seat Width and Pitch?
Author: TWC

another_view Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 79mph Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One of the problems with ADA accessibility and
> > "upgraded coach amenities" always seems to be
> > the  loss of traditionally comfortable rail
> > passenger seating.
> > The aisle may be wider, but at whose expense?
> > Does anyone on the board know what the seat
> width,
> > spacing, and pitch situation is going to be?
> > How does it compare to legacy seating in
> > now-retired Budd-built or Pullman Standard
> > Heritage cars?
> > How  will it compare to Acela standard
> "airline"
> > type seating?
>
> What difference does any of that make? It’s the
> law, Amtrak does not have any alternative, they
> must comply on any new equipment acquisitions.
> It’s the same reason that the sets are costing
> approximately 25% more than in Europe, Amtrak must
> comply with Buy America provisions.

Most Budd/Pullman day coaches had seats that were both smaller and less comfortable than those found on either Brightline or 70's/80's built Amtrak equipment



Date: 06/14/19 05:28
Re: Seat Width and Pitch?
Author: abyler

another_view Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 79mph Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One of the problems with ADA accessibility and
> > "upgraded coach amenities" always seems to be
> > the  loss of traditionally comfortable rail
> > passenger seating.
> > The aisle may be wider, but at whose expense?
> > Does anyone on the board know what the seat
> width,
> > spacing, and pitch situation is going to be?
> > How does it compare to legacy seating in
> > now-retired Budd-built or Pullman Standard
> > Heritage cars?
> > How  will it compare to Acela standard
> "airline"
> > type seating?
>
> What difference does any of that make? It’s the
> law, Amtrak does not have any alternative, they
> must comply on any new equipment acquisitions.
> It’s the same reason that the sets are costing
> approximately 25% more than in Europe, Amtrak must
> comply with Buy America provisions.'

What is the law?  Making the aisles pointlessly wide to accomodate traverse by a wheel chair that will never be made?  Can you point to that in the text of the law?  When are the airlines going to be held to these standards?  Oh, that's right, they never will be.



Date: 06/14/19 05:31
Re: Seat Width and Pitch?
Author: abyler

TWC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most Budd/Pullman day coaches had seats that were
> both smaller and less comfortable than those found
> on either Brightline or 70's/80's built Amtrak
> equipment

That's because PRR/Amtrak made Metroliners and Amfleet coaches purposefully wider at the seat level with the tubular shape to take full advantage of the difference between the 10'-8" clearance envelope and the 10' width standard at floor height/doorway threshold.  Same thought process behind the lozenge shaped Viewliners.



Date: 06/14/19 05:52
Re: Seat Width and Pitch?
Author: FloridaTrainGuy

The big thing that I hate is the fixed seating that makes half of us ride backwards!



Date: 06/14/19 08:08
Re: Seat Width and Pitch?
Author: Arkeytek

> What is the law?  Making the aisles pointlessly
> wide to accommodate traverse by a wheel chair that
> will never be made?  Can you point to that in the
> text of the law?  When are the airlines going to
> be held to these standards?  Oh, that's right,
> they never will be.

ADA - American's with Disabilities Act. A Civil Rights Law that was passed almost 30 years ago. With very few exceptions (airplanes being one of them), public accommodations - including transportation - must be constructed to provide universal accessibility. I have to deal with this law daily. If you want 1,000's of PDF documentation, private message me and I'll dump them all into your inbox.

By the way, the width of an aisle is not determined by wheelchair clearances (that's typically 30-inches), but by people using walkers and and double crutches (one each side of the body). Hope you never break a leg of have your knees give out. That's what "Universal Access" really is, just because someone has an accident and is even temporarily disabled, why should they give up their daily commute? Statistically if you're over 65, you have a 50% chance of having some type of disability.

As for airplanes, they have their own set of rules. Example, specialized narrow wheelchairs can be used to help the non-ambulatory get to their seats. That requires a lot of additional labor. Next time you fly, watch how may people it takes to assist boarding of non-ambulatory passengers. Don't cry that airlines get away with not complying.



Date: 06/14/19 08:27
Re: Seat Width and Pitch?
Author: Lackawanna484

The very big children's strollers now in fashion also take up space, and require a lot of handling.  I watched two guys wrestle one off the train in Ashland VA yesterday.  Not an easy task, turning in the vestibule, getting it down the stairs and out onto the platform.

Virgin / BrightLine has only raised, walk in access, and relatively wider turn radius vestibules.



Date: 06/14/19 08:56
Re: Seat Width and Pitch?
Author: FloridaTrainGuy

Arkeytek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ADA - American's with Disabilities Act. A Civil
> Rights Law that was passed almost 30 years ago.
> With very few exceptions (airplanes being one of
> them), public accommodations - including
> transportation - must be constructed to provide
> universal accessibility.

Just to clarify.  So is the original Superliner exempt?  What about the Superliner IIs?  They were built in the 90's.  How would a new Superliner III be able to comply since they are narrower than the Brightline cars.  Certainly elevators/lifts could be put in but where are they going to go?  Can a wheelchair pass through a Superliner diner?  Can they pass through a sleeper?

What about the new Viewliner IIs?  A wheelchair can't pass through a Viewliner II diner.  BTW - just a fact - the new Viewliner II diner has an incredible amount of space allocated for a wheelchair which drastically cuts capacity from a typical 48 seats to only 42 which has to hurt the bottom line. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/19 09:20 by FloridaTrainGuy.



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