Passenger Trains > CAHSR wants to lay some track

seeking to make a contract for building the track:

https://abc7news.com/politics/california-readies-$16b-high-speed-rail-design-contract/5401918/

Why?

HSR isnt dead, its just perching

OK, I can sort of see laying track, but what use would the catenary be on an isolated 119 mile segment, unless of course they want to recreate the experience of electric segments on the Milwaukee Road's Pacific Extension!

pdt Wrote:
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> HSR isnt dead, its just perching

Try telling that to the peanut gallery!

If you drive up and down the valley construction is going on all over between Shafter and Madera. Pretty impressive actually.

As I keep saying, this is the same way the freeways were built in this country, section by section.

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

I could give them a bargain on some extra Flex Track I have.

MojaveBill Wrote:
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> As I keep saying, this is the same way the
> freeways were built in this country, section by
> section.

Don't think so. Other roads were already in place for the freeways to connect to. The opening of a new segment was more like an upgrade in that area for a traffic base that was already there. 

MojaveBill Wrote:
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> As I keep saying, this is the same way the
> freeways were built in this country, section by
> section.

...which is how HSR was and is being built in Germany and to a lesser extent in France and Netherlands.

TAW

ts1457 Wrote:
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> seeking to make a contract for building the
> track:
>
> https://abc7news.com/politics/california-readies-$
> 16b-high-speed-rail-design-contract/5401918/

Let's build it!!!!!!!

pdt Wrote:
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> HSR isnt dead, its just perching



It's just a flesh wound!

Lay the track! It should have been done in stages I agree, but that is hindsight. I just came back from Cape Kennedy for the 50th birthday of Apollo 11's first landing on the moon and to help clean out the home of my late uncle who helped design and build the first Luna Lander. From what I knew already and learned on this trip, I believe the fatal space accidents were, at least in part, the result of engineers flying-by-the-seats-of-their-pants into a new technology whilst still in the slide rule era. I think the CAHSR has some of the same issues. The USA had little HSR history to draw on and, in my opinion, was opposed to using off-the-self solutions from other countries with 50 plus years of HSR experience. This has caused a real muck-up, but rest assured, CAHSR will come on line just as our space program was re-started after the smoke cleared. 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/19 23:17 by RRBaron.

RRBaron Wrote:
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> The USA has no HSR history to draw on and,
> in my opinion, was opposed to using off-the-self
> solutions from other countries with 50 plus years
> of HSR experience. 

Maybe some of you should study the history of the Budd Metroliner. They went into revenue service only 5 years after the Shinkansen, top speed only 20 km/h (~12.5 mph) slower. They've had reliability issues then, but this is 1969. It seems to totally contradict your claim that I quoted?

Japan kept on refining their HSR, and we didn't, except maybe for the Acela, which was of course not made by an American manufacturer.

Anyway, it's kind of pathetic that a "proponent" doesn't even know this?

ts1457 Wrote:
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> Don't think so. Other roads were already in place
> for the freeways to connect to. The opening of a
> new segment was more like an upgrade in that area
> for a traffic base that was already there.

At this point in our history, we shouldn't have to defend the idea of building "section by section." The (unintended) insinuation of such shallow cheerleading is that we kind of suck at civil projects, that we haven't learned much since the 1950s, or 1860s, as we get narratives comparing this to the "greatness" of the Transcontinental Railroad.

One of the new Shinkansen Lines in SW Japan is being built in "parallel," multiple sections are being built simultaneously. That's only possible when there's thorough (and accurate) planning. Yeah, they learned from the past.

I could care less if CA HSR wants to do this and that if it doesn't involve underhanded scheming for federal money, but really, they can lay all the tracks they want, but if the trains aren't running, I yawn.

TAW Wrote:
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> MojaveBill Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As I keep saying, this is the same way the
> > freeways were built in this country, section by
> > section.
>
> ...which is how HSR was and is being built in
> Germany and to a lesser extent in France and
> Netherlands.

France and Germany took opposite approaches to HSR.  Germany started off with rural bypass lines between its numerous mid-size cities.  The original Fulda-Wurzburg Neubaustrecke was not even a real high speed line, it was a higher speed bypass that was eventually upgraded.. 

France started building complete HSR lines directly serving Paris, which is pretty much the only city of any real importance in France, and only joining existing tracks at its suburbs.  The French lines were only built in sections in the sense that the were gradually extended from one secondary city to another as they ran further from Paris.

>
> Anyway, it's kind of pathetic that a "proponent"
> doesn't even know this?

Correction made. It was a long time ago for this proponet to remember, but Metroliner was not capable of true High Speed given the ROW. Acela was a loser in the HSR race from the start. 

RRBaron Wrote:
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> Correction made. It was a long time ago for this
> proponet to remember, but Metroliner was not
> capable of true High Speed given the ROW. Acela
> was a loser in the HSR race from the start.

That's revisionist history, and bad advocacy. HSR is a hindsight term used today, but I specifically pointed out the 12.5 mph speed difference between Shinkansen and Metroliner as proof that Metroliner was capable of "HSR" speeds in 1969.

British Rail started their DMU Intercity 125 service (only 9 km/h slower than the Shinkansen) in 1976. I rode that in the mid-1980s. TGV's first train sets were capable of 270 km/h (168 mph) in 1981. So "HSR" speed depends on what era you're discussing. In fact, compared to France which led the "speed competition" since 1981, NO ONE ran HSR speeds for decades after 1981 using your flawed logic.