Passenger Trains > Starlight to be discontinued?

From a KEZI-TV article:

Congressman (Dem., 4th District) Peter DeFazio was back in Eugene on Monday, August 26, 2019, this time hosting a roundtable on improving Amtrak’s service in Oregon.The meeting was attended by representatives from Union Pacific, Amtrak, the University of Oregon, the Oregon Department of Transportation and the governor’s office. DeFazio was flanked by state Rep. Nancy Nathanson and Mayor Lucy Vinis. All of them came to the conclusion that improving passenger rail service will improve Eugene’s economy and environmental impact.“If we can get a train to Portland in two hours, I think there will be a massive amount of interest, including myself,” DeFazio said.

But one of the routes on the Trump Administration's chopping block in next years budget is the Coast Starlight. This is Eugene’s only connection to southern Oregon and major California cities by rail. The Coast Starlight is the only passenger train that connects Seattle to Los Angeles on 1,300 miles of track and there are some in Oregon who rely on this once-a-day train to get around the west coast.Though the focus was mainly on Amtrak’s busier Cascade route between Eugene and Seattle, DeFazio said the future of the Coast Starlight is on his mind. “I now chair the transportation committee. I will have to OK that,” he said. “I will not be OK'ing the president killing the Coast Starlight.”



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/19 16:10 by n9949y.

Sounds like a bit of political posturing.

Posted from Android

What else is new and the Trump Administration's as blind as a bat as other Administrations and induviduals when it comes to Amtrak, be nice if we hear something more positive than negative when it comes to Amtrak instead of the excuse on why it needs to go!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/19 17:34 by ProAmtrak.

It has never mattered what Trump, or any other administraion, budgets for Amtrak. Congess in the ends funds it. Even Anderson has said the Coast Starlight, Empire Builder, and Cal Zephyr are safe from his restructruing plans.  

Sounds like fake news. Anderson has specifically mentioned the CS, as well as CZ and EB as the three LD trains he supports.

Posted from iPhone

FAKE news.

Peter DeFazio (Dem., 4th District) is grandstanding and politically posturing, trying to get some votes, cheap.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/19 17:56 by GenePoon.

Be very careful how you read that. I see it as tri weekly or even 1x weekly for the Zephyr.  Anderson’s  number 1 goal appears to be gutting the system under the key word “experimental trains” for tourists. Hes been known to use skewed facts and lies during his tenure as CEO.
palmland Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds like fake news. Anderson has specifically
> mentioned the CS, as well as CZ and EB as the
> three LD trains he supports.
>
> Posted from iPhone

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It has never mattered what Trump, or any other
> administraion, budgets for Amtrak. Congess in the
> ends funds it. Even Anderson has said the Coast
> Starlight, Empire Builder, and Cal Zephyr are safe
> from his restructruing plans.

It matters plenty. 

1) How can Amtrak expect to attract and retain a quality and motivated workforce when Presidents repeatedly threaten to sharply reduce Amtrak funding?  Since you have complained often about Amtrak management and the staff who work aboard the trains and at stations, you should give this matter further consideration.

2) When presidents submit zero or sharply reduced budgets, it forces Congress into mode of working to preserve the existing system.  A "victory" is declared if there are no major cuts.  This makes it impossible to expand and further modernize the system.  No wonder Amtrak has not been able to make needed investments for a modern system which would be more usable for more of the traveling public.



 

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Peter DeFazio (Dem., 4th District) is
> grandstanding and politically posturing, trying to
> get some votes, cheap.

Another ridiculously partisan post from you.  It seems you can't deal with a Democratic politician who shows his strong support for Amtrak.

When the President’s budget has no funding for Amtrak’s long distance routes, I think we can take that as a clear threat.  It doesn’t mean the administration will get its way, but it’s a threat none the less, and Rep. DeFazio is right to call attention to it.

Dave

Flyer92122 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Be very careful how you read that. I see it as tri
> weekly or even 1x weekly for the Zephyr.
>  Anderson’s  number 1 goal appears to be
> gutting the system under the key word
> “experimental trains” for tourists. Hes been
> known to use skewed facts and lies during his
> tenure as CEO.

Kind of like the skewed facts we see regularly on this Passenger Board?

RuleG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It has never mattered what Trump, or any other
> > administration, budgets for Amtrak. Congress in
> the
> > ends funds it. Even Anderson has said the Coast
> > Starlight, Empire Builder, and Cal Zephyr are
> safe
> > from his restructuring plans.
>
> It matters plenty. 
>
> 1) How can Amtrak expect to attract and retain a
> quality and motivated workforce when Presidents
> repeatedly threaten to sharply reduce Amtrak
> funding?  Since you have complained often about
> Amtrak management and the staff who work aboard
> the trains and at stations, you should give this
> matter further consideration.
>
> 2) When presidents submit zero or sharply reduced
> budgets, it forces Congress into mode of working
> to preserve the existing system.  A "victory" is
> declared if there are no major cuts.  This makes
> it impossible to expand and further modernize the
> system.  No wonder Amtrak has not been able to
> make needed investments for a modern system which
> would be more usable for more of the traveling
> public.

Amtrak's current management and Board, all NEC-obsessed Obama appointees, constantly denigrating the national network, is its own worst enemy, despite record appropriation levels. Coscia, Anderson, and Gardner are all Democrats, not Trump surrogates. They have received several hostile letters from various Congressional delegations, both D's and R's. from all over the country. 

• Superliner-1's were ordered during the tail end of Ford and beginning of the Carter administration.
• Amfleet-2's were ordered during the tail end of Carter and beginning Reagan administration.
• Superliner-2's were ordered during the Bush-41 administration.

All were hostile administrations, but under competent management of Reistrup, Boyd, or Claytor. 

Your NARP-style excuse that the Administration prevents long term investments holds no water, and ignores the destructive, stupid management that Amtrak has that NARP has been compromised with. 
 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/19 05:11 by joemvcnj.

RuleG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2) When presidents submit zero or sharply reduced
> budgets, it forces Congress into mode of working
> to preserve the existing system.  A "victory" is
> declared if there are no major cuts.  This makes
> it impossible to expand and further modernize the
> system.  No wonder Amtrak has not been able to
> make needed investments for a modern system which
> would be more usable for more of the traveling
> public.

Obama handed out $12 billion in capital to Amtrak service.  What has the public gotten for that money?  Can you give us a count of new trains operated per day we got for that $12 billion?

People who expect greatly raised levels of funding never like to make an accounting of how money was spent when greatly raised levels of funding were handed out in the past.

There is no Trump admin chopping block.  Yes, Trump is not an Amtrak fan, but he doesn’t fund Amtrak,
that is Congress’ job and they threw 12 billion at it in 2018.  All on the Amtrak board, that makes the strategic
decisions, are Obama appointees, and they don’t take orders from DJTrump.  Typical loser blames all woes
on the President.

Nice try, but that dog don’t hunt.

 

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RuleG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > joemvcnj Wrote:
> >
> ---------------------------------------
>
In the interest of being factually correct and understanding historical context -

• Superliner-I's were ordered during the tail end
  > of Ford and beginning of the Carter
  > administration.

Superliner 1s were ordered under in 1975, under the Ford administration.  It’s important to remember the political context of the time though.  The Congress that funded the order was overwhelmingly Democratic, and Ford was in weak political position having assumed the Presidency without ever facing a national electorate, upon Richard Nixon’s forced resignation.  The Congress was reacting to overwhelming public support for action on the heals of the 1973 oil embargo and subsequent doubling of gas prices.

• Amfleet-1's were ordered during the tail end of
  > Carter and beginning Reagan administration.

Actually, all of the Amfleet I cars were ordered under Nixon and Ford, again in the context of the “energy crisis”.  Amfleet II Car’s were ordered a few weeks into the Reagan administration, but with funding from the previous (Carter) administration budget.

• Superliner-II's were ordered during the
  > Bush-41 administration.

That is correct.  Same is true of the Horizon fleet.

• >

Let’s remember though that funding initiatives can come from either Congress or the Executive branch, and success is usually predicated on the relative levels of support and opposition on each side.  For example, the Ford administration may not have on their own chosen to prioritize Amtrak investment, but also didn’t prioritize opposition in the face of enthusiastic Congressional support.  Secondly, comparing partisan positions across eras is difficult as philosophies and interests change over time.

Dave
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/19 10:13 by DavidP.

abyler Wrote:

> Obama handed out $12 billion in capital to Amtrak
> service.  What has the public gotten for that
> money?  Can you give us a count of new trains
> operated per day we got for that $12 billion?

After Florida, Ohio, and Wisconsin sent the money back, the Vermonter was preserved over a collapsing NECR, and the Portland, ME trains got extended to Brunswick. Woopy-tee-do. 

abyler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Obama handed out $12 billion in capital to Amtrak
> service.  What has the public gotten for that
> money?  Can you give us a count of new trains
> operated per day we got for that $12 billion?
>
> People who expect greatly raised levels of funding
> never like to make an accounting of how money was
> spent when greatly raised levels of funding were
> handed out in the past.

”new trains operating” is at best a marginally useful metric in this discussion.  It would be like saying “Obama gave the Pentagon $xx trillion over eight years, and how many wars did we win in that time?”  Consider -

- The FRA says Amtrak got directly or indirectly (I.e. ARRA grants) roughly $12B total 2009 to 2017.  A sizable portion of this was for operating subsidy, even by Amtrak’s questionable accounting practices.  And as has often been discussed here, Amtrak categorizes many expenses as CapEx that might more appropriately be considered OpEx.  

- Growth can come from multiple sources, including increased ridership on existing routes and increased revenue from existing passengers.  Capital spending can (and should) impact this as well...its often the “low hanging fruit” compared to the capital cost of opening new routes.

- The way our intercity rail ecosystem is currently structured often results in a shift over time in investment for asset renewal from freight carriers to Amtrak.  There are several recent examples of this, including acquisition and upgrade of the Michigan line, renewal of the Southwest Chief route in Kansas, and renewal of the Vermonter route.  This is necessary to keep existing trains running and revenue flowing.

None of this is to say that Amtrak and the FRA are anywhere near as efficient or strategic as they should be in managing Federal investment.  However, its at best misleading to measure the value of this investment solely by the number of new trains operating.

Dave

abyler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Obama handed out $12 billion in capital to Amtrak service.  What has the public gotten for that money?  

Haven't you noticed all the really neat signs at all the stations?

http://subwaynut.com/amtrak/raton/raton18.jpg

What is wrong with a sitting Congressman posturing when he supports Amtrak?  I see nothing wrong with that... and I hope that his "posturing" on the Coast Starlight will extend to all national network trains.