Passenger Trains > Seattle: Do people actually ride streetcars?

A discussion of the First Avenue project, and a map of the current rail network.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/do-people-actually-ride-the-streetcars-your-seattle-streetcar-questions-answered/

I am looking at the map.  I see the street car line and have observed and used the line.  But then I see a light blue line labeled "Light rail."    What is that??

MEKoch Wrote:
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> I am looking at the map.  I see the street car
> line and have observed and used the line.  But
> then I see a light blue line labeled "Light rail."
>    What is that??

You don't know about the Central Link light rail in Seattle?!  It runs from the airport through downtown up to the University of Washington.  I've used it a few times on past trips to Seattle.

niagara484



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/19 10:39 by niagara484.

There are two streetcar lines. I call them a toy transit system. However, they are useful in certain situations. I don't drive downtown if it is avoidable (almost always). I take an Express Bus (that means stops a lot, stands still a lot, but doesn't pick up passengers while it is standing) to get downtown. The freeway station is 20 minutes walk from my house. When I get downtown, if the destination is Capitol Hill, I use the Capitol Hill streetcar from Union Station. If the destination is South Lake Union (such as going to Glazer's Camera), I use that streetcar. They are not heavily used because they have, in their current configuration, limited use. Of course, opponents ignore that and claim that nobody rides streetcars. That is like saying that the sales of a paint store that sells only international orange paint in five gallon buckets indicates that nobody buys paint.

Light rail is being built at one-half snail's pace. When it finally reaches here, I will be able to forego the express vehicle that stops, but not for passengers, for a vehicle that only stops for passengers. I use it for trips to and from Seatac if I'm flying during transit hours: bus to Union Statoin transfer to light rail. My trips this year were off peak and on substantially full trains.

TAW

I rode the Lake Union street car almost everyday when I worked in Seattle.  I had to walk a block to catch it going to work and it dropped me off a block from my work.  Best thing ever!

When I see street car and light rail, I am equating that they are the same thing.  Obviously in Seattle, there is a difference.  I did ride the light rail from SEATAC to Seattle just south of downtown.  It was fine.  

MEKoch Wrote:
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> When I see street car and light rail, I am
> equating that they are the same thing.  Obviously
> in Seattle, there is a difference.

...as well as elsewhere. They are different implementations of rail transit.

Generally, streetcars in the street in traffic lanes. Generally light rail, private right of way, structure, or in the street in dedicated lanes or reservation. Think of light rail as interurban.

TAW

When my friend and I visited Seattle a couple of years ago, we rode everything except Mono Rail just to check out the transportation, along with just enjoying the change of scenery.  I found most systems well used.  Seattle is a "growing" place with Amazon, Google, etc.
Raillady
West Sacramento

raillady Wrote:
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> When my friend and I visited Seattle a couple of
> years ago, we rode everything except Mono Rail
> just to check out the transportation,

Even the monorail, with its limited scope and usefulness, is used by folks (me among them) to get between downtown and the north end of Belltown or the foot of Queen Anne. I see as many people using it for everyday transportation as I see tourists checking out Seattle Center.

TAW

niagara484 Wrote:
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> MEKoch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am looking at the map.  I see the street car
> > line and have observed and used the line.  But
> > then I see a light blue line labeled "Light
> rail."
> >    What is that??
>
> You don't know about the Central Link light rail
> in Seattle?!  It runs from the airport through
> downtown up to the University of Washington. 
> I've used it a few times on past trips to
> Seattle.
>
> niagara484

I wanted to take the Starlight south from Seattle before the new rail bypass line went into operation in late 2017. I flew into SeaTac in early December and spent the night in a motel there. The folowing morning I took light rail from its southernmost stop north to Chinatown/International district. By the time I got off, it was completely packed, standing room only. Likewise, this past May I caught the line from the monorail to King St. station late afternoon, and it too was packed. Seattle is building a new line across Lake Washington to cities on the east side of the lake that should go into service in 2023 and a line north toward Lynnwood, also opening in 2023.

Cumbresfan Wrote:
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> niagara484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MEKoch Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I am looking at the map.  I see the street
> car
> > > line and have observed and used the line. 
> But
> > > then I see a light blue line labeled "Light
> > rail."
> > >    What is that??
> >
> > You don't know about the Central Link light
> rail
> > in Seattle?!  It runs from the airport through
> > downtown up to the University of Washington. 
> > I've used it a few times on past trips to
> > Seattle.
> >
> > niagara484
>
> I wanted to take the Starlight south from Seattle
> before the new rail bypass line went into
> operation in late 2017. I flew into SeaTac in
> early December and spent the night in a motel
> there. The folowing morning I took light rail from
> its southernmost stop north to
> Chinatown/International district. By the time I
> got off, it was completely packed, standing room
> only. Likewise, this past May I caught the line
> from the monorail to King St. station late
> afternoon, and it too was packed. Seattle is
> building a new line across Lake Washington to
> cities on the east side of the lake that should go
> into service in 2023 and a line north toward
> Lynnwood, also opening in 2023.

Humorously enough Cumbresfan, I did something similar about 2 weeks before the bypass was to open.  Instead of the Coast Starlight, I elected to do a roundtrip to Portland on the Cascades, down in the morning and return in the evening.  Like you, I stayed at a hotel by the airport (Marriott in my case) and took the Central Link light rail downtown to King St. to board the train.  The return trip was substantially delayed en route so I elected to bail at Tukwila and catch an Uber back to the hotel instead of going all the way back into Seattle.

MEKoch, hope you didn't take too much offense at my initial reply.  I was just surprised that you didn't recognize the blue dashed line in the map as being the Central Link light rail running underground through downtown Seattle.  As TAW pointed out the streetcars (which run at grade) are a different beast.

niagara484
 

All photos from August 28, 2010
1. Monorail
2. Streetcar
3. Light rail

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We love the Light Rail, but the powers that be at Sound Transit can't get their idea around the fact that you need to provide enough parking at the suburban stations or reasonable alternative transportation to them. My wife and I ended up having to drive into Seattle one day a couple of months ago because there was no parking at the Angle Lake station by 10am. If we had taken Link, we could easily have transferred to the Capitol Hill streetcar to reach our destination and saved the drive. Our only other option at that time of day would be the Metro 150 from downtown Kent, and I can drive to Seattle and be back home before the 150 even reaches Seattle.

K

The street car (not the light rail operated by sound transit) has a pretty niche job but I think it does it well. There are two street cars. one that goes from Westlake to south lake union which is pretty useful for the amazon employees to get to Westlake where there's more bus options. There's also another line going from pioneer Square to first hill, I think this line is heavily under utilized as it's the easiest way to get from where all the relatively speaking cheap apartments to the international district where Seattle's main transit hub is (most busses stop there, king street station is there, and so it both the SeaTac and future Bellevue light rail are)

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KEL27 Wrote:
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> We love the Light Rail, but the powers that be at
> Sound Transit can't get their idea around the fact
> that you need to provide enough parking at the
> suburban stations or reasonable alternative
> transportation to them.

Don't put too much blame on Sound Transit. During my past "transit trips" to Seattle, I chose hotels/motels to make it easier to access the light rail and buses. Yeah, buses, and walking. I don't expect Sound Transit to have THE magical cure for automotive addiction.

cchan006 Wrote:
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> Don't put too much blame on Sound Transit. During
> my past "transit trips" to Seattle, I chose
> hotels/motels to make it easier to access the
> light rail and buses. Yeah, buses, and walking. I
> don't expect Sound Transit to have THE magical
> cure for automotive addiction.

I don't drive downtown. Sound Transit provides express bus service. It takes just as long as driving. It sits in the same traffic I would sit in, since the carpool/transit lane is now regularly standing still like the other lanes. I have quit looking at the timetable. They show up when they show up. Sometimes the bus I want appears to be early, but it's really the last one or the one before that late or Really Late. Sometimes, they just don't show up for an hour. However, I'm not driving and I'm not parking.

A UW student built a transit website https://www.pantographapp.com/?utm_source=ptrack&utm_medium=rdr&utm_campaign=oldsiterdr
At least I can use that to determine roughly how long I'm going to stand in the freeway station waiting for a bus to show up.

TAW

Current federal tax policy still encourages employers to underwrite some of the cost of parking "downtown" and at work elsewhere.  Tweaking that feature could make a difference in the congestion, etc many places find.

cchan006 Wrote:
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>
> Don't put too much blame on Sound Transit. During
> my past "transit trips" to Seattle, I chose
> hotels/motels to make it easier to access the
> light rail and buses. Yeah, buses, and walking. I
> don't expect Sound Transit to have THE magical
> cure for automotive addiction.

That's great if you're staying in town or live in Seattle. I don't. If I have to make a midday trip from the "burbs", it would take over three hours to get there using the bus. The midmorning Sounder has helped, but I still need to get to the station. Once in Seattle my options for getting home are again dictated by the Sounder schedule since bus service to the Link stations from my area is not user friendly.

In Florida, BrightLine usually offers a late night extra train for concerts, baseball, etc.

I understand it is very popular.

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