Passenger Trains > Reading & Northern ends Jim Thorpe passenger operations

Jim Thorpe decided to tax the R&N as an "amusement".  R&N decided to leave:
https://www.rbmnrr.com/happenings/2019/10/16/lgsr-to-cease-operations-november-25-2019?fbclid=IwAR0sIz6N8Qwa4Gia1v-jJTaVhKTGMTIXPh1HSuM3g_Y98MUB5LuPfBTIUco

This is VERY sad. I have ridden both LGSRY and Reading Northern Excursions almost EVERY weekend from May-November for the past several years and it breaks my heart that they will be coming to an end.
While I am saddened by this, I WHOLEHEARTIDLY support Andy Muller who has brought so much joy to young and old alike, and spent large ammounts of time and effort to make Jim Thorpe into a First-Class tourist destination. The borough of Jim Thorpe should hang their head in shame for being so ungrateful to someone who has done so much for them.
When the tourism dries up there, and things revert to back to the way it was in the 1960's They will beg him to come back, and I HOPE HE DOESN'T!

Steve Thorpe (No relation)

Smart people, those Jim Thorpe councilmembers.   Tax the biggest revenue producer out of existence.  What could go wrong?  Talk about dumb f---s. 

That will be a nice Christmas gift for Jim Thorpe - cancellation of the Santa Trains! Such a poor decision on the part of Jim Thorpe, but not the first time they've made a BAD decision and been short-sighted!

Bite the hand that feeds you..........

Is this something like Steamtown leaving Vermont, with some feuding at the time ? 

We're from the government and we're here to help.  Those dummies will reap what they've sown.

-John

What a crock, Jim Thorpe mayor and bourough council !

Navigating through the RBMN website after reading the LGSR announcement, I viewed "employment oppportunities" and noticed LGSR
has an opening for a mascot, to act as a goodwill and welcoming person for the excursion trains, in animal/cartoon character costume.

I'd almost believe the mascot job would fit the mayor/council individuals, except I don't believe there's an available costume that
depicts a horse's a**.... (besides the fact they're not welcoming at all)

Sounds like the mayor and borough council are listening to a bunch of NIMBY's. I suspect that the merchants and other business owners who have enjoyed and benefited from those riding the train will work with other citizens to vote these cretins out of office at the next election.

Much as I'm inclined to strong support Andy Muller's decision to leave town there is another side to this story. During recent road construction Jim Thorpe paid Andy's railroad over $ 600,000 to provide a " flagger" . NS the other railroad in town did not require a flagger. So you see that the town figured it's a 2 way street when it came to the railroad paying the amusement tax. 

  There will be no winners here. Too bad. IMHO-Ross Rowland 

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> Is this something like Steamtown leaving Vermont,
> with some feuding at the time ? 
With Vermont, had Steamtown stayed - there would, by now I'm sure, be all kinds of whining about the steam.
With Jim Thorpe this is going to be funny to watch. It would really be great to get an hourly update.

Talk about a tantrum.  Every tourist industry kicks back hard cash to the local community and the scenic railroad should really be no different.  Paying a town in "exposure" when the town faces real costs is not an acceptable solution.  Rest assured that the pressure here was coming from the cycle and boat tour operators who do pay their fair share to the town and likely felt the railroad was getting an unfair advantage,

At the end of the day this isn't something that should come out of the pocket of the railroad, it should come out of the pocket of the price insensitive tourists.  Adding a line item onto the price of the ticket, probably little more than a dollar or two, would make explicit the same arrangement used by every other tourist trap in the world. 

Citizens of Mauch Chunk would not have abided such malfeasance.

News stories are more even-handed than the railroad's truculent press release:

https://www.tnonline.com/jim-thorpe-reading-northern-odds-over-amusement-fee

Paul Wilson
Arlington, VA

The town wants to retroactively tax them back to 2016 which, without any other information provided, seems to be blatantly unfair.

As for Mr. Rowland's suggestion of a quid pro quo for the grade crossing project...
Putting 'flagging' in quotes could imply that this is an illigitimate money grab by the railroad. On the contrary, flagging is a real cost of doing business for a railroad which is often missed or underestimated when non-railroaders plan a project.  Flagging for contractors or third parties working on the railroad is the means to provide employee safety and protect the railroad's property.  Proper planning can minimize the flagging time and cost but good planning doesn't happen much of the time in these types of projects.  If the town is upset about this, then maybe they shouldn't have picked the low bid engineer or contractor who didn't know anything about working with a railroad, or perhaps there were other steps they could have taken to manage the project and budget more efficiently.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/19 14:13 by RRTom.

It is a huge surprise that the LGSR will be curtailing operations. Yes, Jim Thorpe is a great town to visit with nice shops and restaurants. The train rides are one of the other main reasons why people flock to Jim Thorpe. They did very well with riders. I remember in June of 2018, I rode the bike train. I didn't have a bike but I wanted to ride just to ride the train as well as enjoy the gorges in NEPA. That bike train was very patronized, especially on the way up. It seems that the council hierarchies of Jim Thorpe aren't too friendly toward the railroad which is definately a disgrace. I saw something about paying an amusement tax and it sounds like the railroad wasn't doing that which is a problem too.

The town wanted the prior rail carrier out (which I think was run by George Hart) and the R&N came in, built a ticket booth attached to the old CNJ station and expanded the excursions being offered.  Running into the Lehigh Gorge State Park was an added bonus.  The crowds came, certain trains sold out.  The bicycle trains were a big hit.  It was a win-win for the town and the railroad.  Still don't see how a railroad can be charged an amusement tax.  

I've personally ridden the bike trains and the regular Lehigh Gorge trains.  I will miss the trains.  

The Lehigh Scenic Gorge train this past Saturday.  It was sold out.  The line is for tickets for a later train.  They added an extra run later in the afternoon.   There were 4 distinctly separate R&N passenger trains to 4 different places calling on Jim Thorpe Saturday.  Some ran multiple times a day. 

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The subject line of this thread is a bit misleading.  The trains being operated by the Lehigh Gorge Scenic Railway out of Jim Thorpe would be discontinued.  Reading & Northern trains being operated from Reading Outer Station and Port Clinton would continue to run according to the press release.  In reading some of the comments in the thread, it is not clear that everyone understands that the longer distance trips would continue to operate.

Typical PA politicians...think they can bully ppl to get money, and frequently use their position to line their pockets.  "Everyone does it", so its OK.

Good for Andy for just walking away.  We'll see if they go back to andy to patch this up, or as i suspect...they will have egos much too big to ever admit they made a bad decision.    In fact, if they were really smart, they would repeal the "amusement tax".  Its obviously just a money grab. 

Anyone who thinks shortlines are cash cows, is crazy.  
Look at all the money RBMN has put into emphastructure.  Admidedly, the state has helped pay for a lot of it, but still, it wasnt free.   When was the last time u heard of a shortline putting in power switches and CTC?  Putting in a whole new large bridge.  Instituting RDC passenger service on weekends. Building a whole new "old style" railroad dispatch center, HQ, and engine facility.  Maintaining a sizeable passenger fleet.  

I dare say that if the LGSR were a cash cow, Andy would be more willing to negociate on the tax.  Im guessing its a labor of love and just breaks even.


my .02



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/19 10:52 by pdt.