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Passenger Trains > Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.


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Date: 11/05/19 13:00
Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: ronald321

Pulled this off Siemen's website -- of the configuration of these cars.  A few things SURPRISED me.

88 CARS FOR ILLINOIS

20 individual coach car - 2 doors
34 Coach car for business or cafe married pair - 2 doors
17 Business/economy car - 4 doors
17 Lounge cars - 4 doors
88 Total

A surprise to me:
. mosrt cars will have only one vestibule end
. Hard to believe there will be 17 full lounge cars
. don't know what a "business or cafe married pair" is.  (do they mean a "split" business class/cafe like Amfleet cars?)
. No idea what a "Business/economy" car is. (seems like a contradiction in terms)

49 CARS FOR CALIFORNIA

14 Mid coach car - 2 doors
7  End coach car coupled to locomotive - 4 doors ( with gap filler, level boarding)
7 mid coach car with wheelchair lifts - 4 doors
7 mid coach car w/gap filler, level boarding - 4 doors
7 cab car - 2 doors
7 lounge car - 4 doors
49 Total

,  I didn't know cab cars were included (for Calif., but NOT Illinois)
'  The terminology "Mid Coach car" is strange to me
.  It appears - no Business class cars - and no cafe cars - as in the Illinois order.

Can anyone shed more light on som of this?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/19 13:03 by ronald321.



Date: 11/05/19 13:03
Re: Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: swirsk53

my take is that the lounges are actually cafe/snack type facilities
the CA mid train coaches are to distinguish them from the cab cars 



Date: 11/05/19 13:08
Re: Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: MEKoch

Are the 88 "Illinois" cars just for Illinois, funded by them, or is part of this order funded by Michigan OR?     Missouri?   OR?   

It has been so long in coming, I forget what the initial order even was, who ordered, who paid, etc.  



Date: 11/05/19 13:11
Re: Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: amtrakbill

Plus Wisconsin just added 9 cars to this order



Date: 11/05/19 13:11
Re: Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: OTG

Can't help with the definitions on the midwest cars, except to speculate that the configuration of the cars may be variable depending on the service they're being purchased for.  So if a set is beng purchased for a service with Business Class, the cars will be configured accordingly, while if the service doesn't have business class the cars will be configured for economy seating.

In California the new cars will be assembled into seven semi-permanently coupled trainsets, so the "Mid Coach" vs. "End Coach" is defining which type of coupling is at each end of the car.  Mid coaches will have the semi-permanent pin-type coupler at both ends, while the end coaches will have the semi-permanent setup at one end, and a standard AAR-type setup at the other.  The other differences appear to be related to whether cars are ADA accessible or not.  Additionally, the 7 lounge cars would probably be cafe/food service cars.  Regarding the lack of Business Class:  these trainsets are all going to the San Joaquin service, as they're single level and it is the most lightly patronized corridor in California.  The San Joaquins do not have Business Class, nor are there plans to add it in the future, so Business Class cars aren't necessary.  The current bilevel cars used on the San Joaquin service will be redistributed to the other services in the state.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/19 13:20 by OTG.



Date: 11/05/19 13:38
Re: Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: PHall

OTG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can't help with the definitions on the midwest
> cars, except to speculate that the configuration
> of the cars may be variable depending on the
> service they're being purchased for.  So if a set
> is beng purchased for a service with Business
> Class, the cars will be configured accordingly,
> while if the service doesn't have business class
> the cars will be configured for economy seating.
>
> In California the new cars will be assembled into
> seven semi-permanently coupled trainsets, so the
> "Mid Coach" vs. "End Coach" is defining which type
> of coupling is at each end of the car.  Mid
> coaches will have the semi-permanent pin-type
> coupler at both ends, while the end coaches will
> have the semi-permanent setup at one end, and a
> standard AAR-type setup at the other.  The other
> differences appear to be related to whether cars
> are ADA accessible or not.  Additionally, the 7
> lounge cars would probably be cafe/food service
> cars.  Regarding the lack of Business Class: 
> these trainsets are all going to the San Joaquin
> service, as they're single level and it is the
> most lightly patronized corridor in California. 
> The San Joaquins do not have Business Class, nor
> are there plans to add it in the future, so
> Business Class cars aren't necessary.  The
> current bilevel cars used on the San Joaquin
> service will be redistributed to the other
> services in the state.



Yeah to the Capitol Corridor which can really use the seats and the Surfliners always need more seats too.



Date: 11/05/19 14:39
Re: Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: The-late-EMD

I think the reason there are no cab cars on the Illinois order is because they will have a locomotive on each end of the consist.

Posted from Android



Date: 11/05/19 14:46
Re: Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: joemvcnj

34 Coach car for business or cafe married pair - 2 doors - Probably a full business car semi-permanently coupled to a dinette car

17 Business/economy car - 4 doors - Probably half business, half coach with a divider across the middle 


Will the doors on these cars have traps ?

The closest high level platforms are Harrisburg or on Metra Electric, which is not where any of them will run.  



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/19 14:55 by joemvcnj.



Date: 11/05/19 17:46
Re: Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: Lackawanna484

Can The states decide their cars will not be ADA accessible?

Posted from Android



Date: 11/05/19 18:59
Re: Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: miralomarail

So will these be Bi-Level like the Calif Cars ?
If so, I hope they have the Same Sliding Side doors as The Calif Cars, or they will be yet another Headache for those who have to keep them rolling :(



Date: 11/05/19 19:57
Re: Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: John

Unfortunately, the cars will not be bi-level.  Siemens took over the car contract for the mid-west and California cars after the original builder could not produce a bi-level that would past tests.  The cars will be similar to the Brightline cars.



Date: 11/05/19 20:49
Re: Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: PHall

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can The states decide their cars will not be ADA
> accessible?
>
> Posted from Android

Yeah, if they don't want any Federal money plus you just know a ADA suit will happen if they're put in service and they're not ADA accessible.



Date: 11/06/19 06:00
Re: Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: mtzctrain

34 Coach car for business or cafe married pair - 2 doors

If you notice, there are 17 lounge cars and 17 business/economy cars; making a total of 34 of these two types. As I understand, there will be sets (sets of 2 cars) of semi-permanently coupled cars: "Married pairs". So each of the 34 coach cars will be married to either a lounge or business car.



Date: 11/06/19 06:05
Re: Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: Lackawanna484

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Can The states decide their cars will not be
> ADA
> > accessible?
> >
> > Posted from Android
>
> Yeah, if they don't want any Federal money plus
> you just know a ADA suit will happen if they're
> put in service and they're not ADA accessible.

Thanks.  I'm surprised the states don't have their own, stricter ADA rules. 



Date: 11/06/19 06:12
Re: Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: kevink

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks.  I'm surprised the states don't have
> their own, stricter ADA rules. 

I would not be surprised if some states do. While not a state, Chicago has more stringent requirements for sidewalks and sidewalk ramps than the ADA requirements. 



Date: 11/06/19 06:13
Re: Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: kevink

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Will the doors on these cars have traps ?
>
> The closest high level platforms are Harrisburg or
> on Metra Electric, which is not where any of them
> will run.  

I think you answered your own question. :^)



Date: 11/06/19 10:38
Re: Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: 79mph

Wuz under the impression that FRA and NTSB had strongly recommended against any further development of cab cars for "heavy" rail usage in the USA?



Date: 11/06/19 12:29
Re: Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: robj

I saw they added 22 empty shell cars to make the axle count. Actually I don't know they need 88 cars fo Illinois so some of them might be drag along service.
Bob

Posted from Android



Date: 11/06/19 13:36
Re: Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: tmurray

This is one of the slides from the presentation last year.
 




Date: 11/06/19 15:25
Re: Overview of new Siemens cars for Ill. & Calif.
Author: joemvcnj

In the midwest, it seems this arrangement can't use the cafe to splice business class on one end of the train from the coach section. 
On the California one, when, not if, the cab car gets wrecked at a grade crossing, now what (with "S" couplers) ?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/19 13:32 by joemvcnj.



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