Passenger Trains > DC: New toll roads intended to expand car pools, maybe rail

The commonwealth of Virginia and the District of Columbia will open  new 24 hour toll lanes on I-395, offering car pools and people willing to pay a steep toll an alternate to grinding and slow travel.  Three new lanes replace two sets of two directional lanes. Tolls may be as high as $30 for peak driving times. I was surprised to see that motorcycles will ride free,it willl be interesting to see how that works out. Hybrid vehicles will now pay tolls, I believe straight electric vehicles will not pay tolls, even when occupied by a single driver.

I-395 runs from northern Virginia, past the Pentagon, and into DC. In Virginia, it connects with the already tolled inner lanes of I-95.  Since the tolls vary based on traffic volume, it is difficult to predict precisely how much they will be.  The DC Metro rail also used variable pricing, people would wait outside the entry gate until the chime signalled lower late morning rates were in effect.

Many drivers may be headed to the L'Enfant Plaza area, where there are many government offices.  It would be great if this produced a bump in VRE services, too.  It's a lot cheaper to add one train than capacity for a thousand more cars...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/tolling-on-395-express-lanes-starts-sunday-heres-what-you-need-to-know/2019/11/16/07742088-07d4-11ea-818c-fcc65139e8c2_story.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/19 06:58 by Lackawanna484.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The commonwealth of Virginia and the District of
> Columbia will open  new 24 hour toll lanes on
> I-395, offering car pools and people willing to
> pay a steep toll an alternate to grinding and slow
> travel.  Three new lanes replace two sets of two
> directional lanes. Tolls may be as high as $30 for
> peak driving times. I was surprised to see that
> motorcycles will ride free,it willl be interesting
> to see how that works out. Hybrid vehicles will
> now pay tolls, I believe straight electric
> vehicles will not pay tolls, even when occupied by
> a single driver.
>
Not much is "new" here, except the third lane and the 24-hour HOV/tolling. Plus they have finally made the express-lane bridge into DC HOV-only (inbound it used to back up horribly, which negated a lot of the benefits). The automated tolling also has a not-much-discussed side benefit, which is to curtail the rampant HOV cheating that persisted under the old system. 

Motorcycles have been eligible for HOV status for more two decades (and it comports with federal law.) Back in the 90s, VDOT fought tooth and nail to keep motorcycles out of the HOV lanes, and lost. "Slugging" (picking up two pasengers) is feature of the 95/395 express lanes...it never really caught on with other routes, such as I-66. 

Yours truly is an occasional I-66 HOT motorcycle (for "free") commuter.

The 66 Express lanes and 395 express lanes are solely a VDOT project, not the VDOT/Transurban PPP (Public-Private Partnership) that was behind the 495 and 95 Express Lanes, and is currently building the express lanes on 66 outside the Beltway. Some of the toll revenues are earmarked for transit improvements.

Paul Wilson
Arlington, VA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/19 07:26 by Dcmcrider.

I'm glad to hear that motorcycles ride free. They take up a lot less highway space than a full size SUV with just one driver, and require far less storage space somewhere inside DC.

Well, the news is Virginia and the District of Columbia has a new revenue stream. California figured this one out a while ago and has been using the recent additional Tax on Gasoline to Fund the construction of more Toll Lanes, rather than increasing volume or improving the design of the route.. Effectively reducing the number of lanes available to drivers who don't pay the additional Toll. That four lane per side freeway goes to three lanes, then the truck traffic discourages using the two lanes to the right side, pretty much squeezed to that one one lane and hope everybody else takes the Toll lane.

The State says they'll improve the potholes in the road but they should be improving the merging lanes and building fly-overs.

imagine getting stuck with a couple Amtrak foamers off the slug line.  


Dcmcrider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The commonwealth of Virginia and the District
> of
> > Columbia will open  new 24 hour toll lanes on
> > I-395, offering car pools and people willing to
> > pay a steep toll an alternate to grinding and
> slow
> > travel.  Three new lanes replace two sets of
> two
> > directional lanes. Tolls may be as high as $30
> for
> > peak driving times. I was surprised to see that
> > motorcycles will ride free,it willl be
> interesting
> > to see how that works out. Hybrid vehicles will
> > now pay tolls, I believe straight electric
> > vehicles will not pay tolls, even when occupied
> by
> > a single driver.
> >
> Not much is "new" here, except the third lane and
> the 24-hour HOV/tolling. Plus they have finally
> made the express-lane bridge into DC HOV-only
> (inbound it used to back up horribly, which
> negated a lot of the benefits). The automated
> tolling also has a not-much-discussed side
> benefit, which is to curtail the rampant HOV
> cheating that persisted under the old system. 
>
> Motorcycles have been eligible for HOV status for
> more two decades (and it comports with federal
> law.) Back in the 90s, VDOT fought tooth and nail
> to keep motorcycles out of the HOV lanes, and
> lost. "Slugging" (picking up two pasengers) is
> feature of the 95/395 express lanes...it never
> really caught on with other routes, such as
> I-66. 
>
> Yours truly is an occasional I-66 HOT motorcycle
> (for "free") commuter.
>
> The 66 Express lanes and 395 express lanes are
> solely a VDOT project, not the VDOT/Transurban PPP
> (Public-Private Partnership) that was behind the
> 495 and 95 Express Lanes, and is currently
> building the express lanes on 66 outside the
> Beltway. Some of the toll revenues are earmarked
> for transit improvements.

So, electric battery powered cars don’t pay road use tax from fuel pumps, and now don’t pay tolls?
Talk about a free ride!

In the late 80’s or maybe early 90’s I flew in late DFW to Dulles, stayed the night in Manassas, then the next morning
hopped in the rent car and drove I-66 into DC to a new hotel under construction.

i asked the guys on the site why other folks driving into town kept honking at me.  It was only then that I knew
I-66 was high occupancy vehicles only in the mornings, and had I been pulled over, the fine would be in excess of $200 .  

Yikes!

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The commonwealth of Virginia and the District of
> Columbia will open  new 24 hour toll lanes on
> I-395, offering car pools and people willing to
> pay a steep toll an alternate to grinding and slow
> travel.  Three new lanes replace two sets of two
> directional lanes. Tolls may be as high as $30 for
> peak driving times. I was surprised to see that
> motorcycles will ride free,it willl be interesting
> to see how that works out. Hybrid vehicles will
> now pay tolls, I believe straight electric
> vehicles will not pay tolls, even when occupied by
> a single driver.

This is the worst sort of libertarianism, where public goods we paid for with our gas taxes are restricted from general use and priced so high only the very wealthy will take advantage of them.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm glad to hear that motorcycles ride free. They
> take up a lot less highway space than a full size
> SUV with just one driver, and require far less
> storage space somewhere inside DC.

A motorcycle is a vehicle like any other. It requires a lane to itself and 2 to 4 seconds trailing and following distance if it is being operated responsibly.  At 60 mph, a vehicle should occupy 352 ft. minimum of road (176 ft. forward and back plus its own length).  The 12 ft. length difference of a motorcycle and a truck is negligible.

Of course, many people just tailgate with less than half a second of following time and then are shocked they end up in wrecks.  When people talk about 2500 cars per lane hour, they are talking about drivers tailgaiting each other the whole way.

That has nothing to do with libertarianism. Libertarianism seeks to limit the size of government and lower government revenues. 

abyler Wrote:

> This is the worst sort of libertarianism, where
> public goods we paid for with our gas taxes are
> restricted from general use and priced so high
> only the very wealthy will take advantage of them.

abyler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm glad to hear that motorcycles ride free.
> They
> > take up a lot less highway space than a full
> size
> > SUV with just one driver, and require far less
> > storage space somewhere inside DC.
>
> A motorcycle is a vehicle like any other. It
> requires a lane to itself and 2 to 4 seconds
> trailing and following distance if it is being
> operated responsibly.  At 60 mph, a vehicle
> should occupy 352 ft. minimum of road (176 ft.
> forward and back plus its own length).  The 12
> ft. length difference of a motorcycle and a truck
> is negligible.
>
> Of course, many people just tailgate with less
> than half a second of following time and then are
> shocked they end up in wrecks.  When people talk
> about 2500 cars per lane hour, they are talking
> about drivers tailgaiting each other the whole
> way.

Finding parking in downtown District can be a chore in itself.  Packing 50 motorcycles in spaces that would otherwise accommodate a few (single passenger) SUVs would seem like a huge plus.

Of course, packing the the riders in a VRE train, and leaving motorcycles, SUVs and everything in between out in the suburbs would be even better.

My understanding is it would be called 'Progressivism', which sounds good but is re-directed or re-interpreted every so often. Generally the idea is to better society, but then it gets split into what does 'better' mean and who should be favored in 'Society' and who gets to run this particular movement. Not really my field but I defer to peer review Wikipedia on such things, which also has some other definitions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

MSE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That has nothing to do with libertarianism.
> Libertarianism seeks to limit the size of
> government and lower government revenues. 
>
> abyler Wrote:
>
> > This is the worst sort of libertarianism, where
> > public goods we paid for with our gas taxes are
> > restricted from general use and priced so high
> > only the very wealthy will take advantage of
> them.

In closely related news, Maryland counties have blocked a plan to install a toll lane project on I-270, and part of the Capitol Beltway. I-270 links the suburbs of the northwest with the District of Columbia.  My recollection is a part of the Beltway's west section in Virginia has toll "express" lanes but the part of the west section in Maryland doesn't have them.  This proposal would put a toll lane in place of the HOV lane on I-270 and continue onto a part of the Beltway in Maryland.

The MARC line out to Brunswick and (for now) Harpers Ferry / Martinsburg parallels this extremely busy highway

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/montgomery-prince-georges-officials-reject-state-study-of-toll-lanes-for-beltway-i-270/2019/11/20/8221ca00-0bcc-11ea-bd9d-c628fd48b3a0_story.html