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Passenger Trains > Capitol Ltd. historical question


Date: 01/11/20 15:16
Capitol Ltd. historical question
Author: MEKoch

I remember riding Amtrak 29 - 30 from Pittsburgh north on the old B&O line to New Castle.  As has been noted in other threads it would be through the hills north of Pittsburgh.  Not a fast railroad.  

What years was this?   Did they continue on the B&O to Chicago, or make their way into Cleveland some how?  Late 80s sounds familiar to my memory.  Did they back out of the PGH (PRR) station to get back to the B&O tracks.?  



Date: 01/11/20 16:08
Re: Capitol Ltd. historical question
Author: RuleG

May 1, 1971 - Amtrak takes over intercity passenger rail service from most railroads.  The Broadway Limited (40 & 41) continues its traditional ex-PRR routing west of Pittsburgh.

October 1, 1981 - Amtrak inaugurates the Capitol Limited (440 & 441).  It is combined with the Broadway Limited west of Pittsburgh.

October 26, 1986 - The Broadway Limited and Capitol Limited are run as completely separate trains for their entire routes.  The Capitol Limited is assigned numbers 29 & 30.

November 11, 1990 - The Capitol Limited is rerouted off the former Broadway Limited route west of Alliance to a routing via Cleveland using the ex-NYC route west of Cleveland.

The Broadway Limited is shifted to CSX's former B & O route via Youngstown, Akron, Fostoria, Garrett & Nappanee.  Initally, to access the CSX from the Pittsburgh station, train 41 had to back out of the Pittsburgh station over the Conrail Pittsburgh Line to the junction with CSX's P & W Subdivision at "Bloom" interlocking and then through "Field" interlocking where it would reverse and start its westward trip.

This arrangement lasted just a year or two.  A new connection between Conrail and CSX was established northwest of Pittsburgh (I believe near New Castle, PA) and train 41 could continue directly west from the after its Pittsburgh station stop without having to back out.
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/20 18:25 by RuleG.



Date: 01/11/20 16:10
Re: Capitol Ltd. historical question
Author: PRSL-recall

I wouldn't be able to answer your question specific to Pittsburgh but I did ride the B&O Capitol Linited back in June 1970 from Washington Union Station to Chicago, changing to ATSF's Super Chief there. That train was superb, couldn't say enough positive. At that point in time the Chicago station used was Northwest Station. That was in the window of time after Grand Central was discontinued but before Amtrak of course. Also still existing til the end of that year (1970) was the jitney-type service which moved transferring passengers from one station to the next. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/20 16:11 by PRSL-recall.



Date: 01/11/20 21:35
Re: Capitol Ltd. historical question
Author: DJ-12

I always figured past PRR presidents probably rolled over in their graves to know the Broadway was running on the B&O, while weirdly, the Capitol was running west of Pgh on the PRR at least to Cleveland.

I once was coming back from a trip to Chicago circa 1991 or so with my no railfan brother. He was rather annoyed that I booked us on the slower Broadway so that I xould get all those B&O miles. Glad I did though!

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/20 21:38 by DJ-12.



Date: 01/12/20 07:20
Re: Capitol Ltd. historical question
Author: BNSF6400

RuleG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This arrangement lasted just a year or two.  A
> new connection between Conrail and CSX was
> established northwest of Pittsburgh (I believe
> near New Castle, PA) and train 41 could continue
> directly west from the after its Pittsburgh
> station stop without having to back out.

Yes, unless I am mistaken, the connector track is located on the south side of New Castle, specifically in the small community of Mahoningtown, PA where the CSX passes over the top of the Conrail line.



Date: 01/12/20 09:52
Re: Capitol Ltd. historical question
Author: toledopatch

To summarize, the Amtrak Capitol Limited did not use the ex-B&O west of Pittsburgh, but the Broadway Limited did after its and the Cap's November 1990 removal from the ex-PRR across western Ohio and Indiana.



Date: 01/12/20 10:58
Re: Capitol Ltd. historical question
Author: DJ-12

Here are a few shots of the move being discussed, but not of the Broadway. In October 2006, NS derailed an Ethanol train at New Brighton PA, which closed both the NS Ft Wayne and Youngstown Line. Amtrak detoured the Capitol Limited over the CSX main to New Castle, and then the over the P&W Sub into Pittsburgh with a back up move into the amtrak station over the Connector between Field and Bloom. This is the same move the Broadway made for several years described earlier. By this time, the P&W sub has been spun off by CSXT: the section from New Castle to Evans City to the BPRR, and Evans City to Glenwood to the AVR.
1. 10-22-06, Amtrak 30 with an AVR pilot rolls over the Allegheny River Bridge at FY towards Field, where a back up move will be made towards the NS main and the Amtrak Station.
2. The next morning, frrom a different angle, Amtrak 30 curves off the Allegheny River Bridge with the Pittsburgh skyline behind. The Amtrak station is just about directly below the US Steel building from this perspective.
3. The same train going away with the Beech Grove along for a ride on the rear. Haveing taken the signal at Field, they will pull clear of the switch and make the back up move over the connector to the station. This connection was installed when the Capitol Limited started running and is used today by the Cap and by AVR transfers to the NS. The weed choked track at lower left served the now defunct Pittsburgh Brewing facility.

Hope this helps illustrate a bit.

 








Date: 01/13/20 17:51
Re: Capitol Ltd. historical question
Author: Steinzeit2

BNSF6400 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RuleG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This arrangement lasted just a year or two.  A
> > new connection between Conrail and CSX was
> > established northwest of Pittsburgh (I believe
> > near New Castle, PA) and train 41 could
> continue
> > directly west from the after its Pittsburgh
> > station stop without having to back out.
>
> Yes, unless I am mistaken, the connector track is
> located on the south side of New Castle,
> specifically in the small community of
> Mahoningtown, PA where the CSX passes over the top
> of the Conrail line.

Just to clarify, the bulk of the connector track dates from the PC to connect the ex-PRR line with the P&LE.  It wasn't until Amtrak wanted to use it, and the P&LE moribund, that the top end was slewed over to connect with the ex-B&O side.  See brakeshoe75's 1/4/04 post on this, which confirmed my memory since my P&LE ett is 'temporarily mislaid.'

Best rgds, SZ



Date: 01/13/20 18:29
Re: Capitol Ltd. historical question
Author: RuleG

aehouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RuleG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > October 1, 1981 - Amtrak inaugurates the
> Capitol
> > Limited (29 & 30).  It is combined with the
> > Broadway Limited west of Pittsburgh.
> >
> > October 26, 1986 - The Broadway Limited and
> > Capitol Limited run as separate trains for
> their
> > entire routes.
> >
> >
>
> As long as the Capitol was a connection of the
> Broadway, it ran between Pittsburgh and Washington
> as trains 440 and 441 (1981-86) .
>
> It did not get the numbers 29 and 30 until it
> began running as a through train on its own
> (1986).
>
> Art House

Thanks, Art, for pointing that out.  I corrected my post, accordingly.



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