Passenger Trains > New Amtrak Trains - Memphis to Chicago and Nashville to Atlanta?

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/2020/01/15/amtrak-nashville-tennessee-train-service-state-legislators/4477648002/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/20 14:01 by FloridaTrainGuy.

Do they have equipment available to cover these services?

From the Commercial Appeal story, Amtrak's Ray Lang: 

"Our route map doesn't really reflect where the nation's population has shifted to — places like Nashville, Louisville, Columbus and Las Vegas that we don't serve at all," Lang told the committee. "We have to do something to change the Amtrak network. Otherwise we'll just wither away." 

It almost goes without saying that  Amtrak *did* serve all those places, and walked away from them all, in a perennial quest to "cut its way to prosperity." 

And all of it is highly speculative and dependent on as-yet untapped sources of new money: 

"Lang said Amtrak could present its vision to Congress as soon as the spring, once it has secured partnerships with interested states." 

Yep, state "partners" required.

Paul Wilson
Arlington, VA

Chicago-Memphis should be easy -- simply extend existing Carbondale trains.
But, only blood curdling fights with the CN can be expected.

With regard to the other cities mention, I doubt if "passenger ready" tracks exist anymore.
.  Chicago-Louisville - I believe only the X-Monon still exist (a very slow route)
.  Columbus -  The X-PRR is gone as a through route to St. Louis or New York, Also, don't know If a direct line to Chicago still exist.
.  Nashville-Atlanta.  I think the X-L&N line is still capable of passenger train speeds--but, I'm not positive.

Is my assessment basically right?

you would think getting amtrak back to serve the vegas and downtown phoenix markets would be high on amtrak's "new train" priorities..........

66

ronald321 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chicago-Memphis should be easy -- simply extend
> existing Carbondale trains.
> But, only blood curdling fights with the CN can be
> expected.
>
> With regard to the other cities mention, I doubt
> if "passenger ready" tracks exist anymore.
> .  Chicago-Louisville - I believe only the
> X-Monon still exist (a very slow route)
> .  Columbus -  The X-PRR is gone as a through
> route to St. Louis or New York, Also, don't know
> If a direct line to Chicago still exist.
> .  Nashville-Atlanta.  I think the X-L&N line is
> still capable of passenger train speeds--but, I'm
> not positive.
>
> Is my assessment basically right?

As the Carbondale trains are state-supported by Illinois, you'd have to figure out who pays for extending the train beyond to Memphis.

Chicago-Louisville:  the Monon is long gone as a through route.  The only viable option would be the Cardinal's route between Chicago and Indy and then south to Louisville over the Louisville and Indiana RR (ex-PRR), recently rebuilt but non-signaled.
Louisville-Nashville-Atlanta:  still pretty heavily used by CSX and should be in decent shape.  But neither segment is a particularly fast piece of railroad (largely a function of geography). 

niagara484



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/20 15:19 by niagara484.

Actually Atlanta-Chattanooga-Nashville-Louisville-Indianapolis-Chicago would be a great route. CSX fixed up the ex-PRR from Louisville to Indianapolis a few years ago.

Problem is the route from Atlanta to Nashville via Chattanooga is very slow compared to driving. The best historical timing was about 6 and a half hours between those two cities vs a 4 hour drive. Then having the train continue to Chicago from Nashville would make it an evil long distance train, which Amtrak hates.

Then the freight railroads... both CSX and NS routes between ATL and Chattanooga are busy and single track, and slow. CSX ex NC&SL between Chattanooga and Nashville is also slow, busy and single track.

During the Kentucky Cardinal days, Amtrak ran a test train down from Louisville to Nashville. That line has moderate traffic and is in good shape.

Shame Nashville to Chicago is not proposed.

Posted from Android

As to where....i think amtk is going to rail friendly states 1st.  They are looking for subsidy $$.   AZ put out rail money??
LAS...there's someone else already pursuing it...so maybe Amtk is playing nice....

The CSX PR response...OMG  Classic....We don't  want to lose freight biz to trucks!!!!!.   LMFAO.
I guess its really good that they havent been chasing away freight biz on their own...

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/20 15:31 by pdt.

cabsignaldrop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually
> Atlanta-Chattanooga-Nashville-Louisville-Indianapo
> lis-Chicago would be a great route. CSX fixed up
> the ex-PRR from Louisville to Indianapolis a few
> years ago.
>
> Problem is the route from Atlanta to Nashville via
> Chattanooga is very slow compared to driving. The
> best historical timing was about 6 and a half
> hours between those two cities vs a 4 hour drive.
> Then having the train continue to Chicago from
> Nashville would make it an evil long distance
> train, which Amtrak hates.
>
> Then the freight railroads... both CSX and NS
> routes between ATL and Chattanooga are busy and
> single track, and slow. CSX ex NC&SL between
> Chattanooga and Nashville is also slow, busy and
> single track.
>
> During the Kentucky Cardinal days, Amtrak ran a
> test train down from Louisville to Nashville. That
> line has moderate traffic and is in good shape.
>
> Shame Nashville to Chicago is not proposed.
>
> Posted from Android

This perhaps has come up before, but I really believe an Amtrak dedicated bus from Carbondale, IL to Nashville would make a ton of sense. Historically the bus connection for Nashville was at Indy with the Hoosier State/Cardinal, the former IC is much faster and the drive from Carbondale to Nashville is quite direct. Might be a good place to start? Same for Memphis, add a bus that connects with one of the Carbondale trains.

Adam

cabsignaldrop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then the freight railroads... both CSX and NS
> routes between ATL and Chattanooga are busy and
> single track, and slow. CSX ex NC&SL between
> Chattanooga and Nashville is also slow, busy and
> single track.

My impression is that with PSR, the Nashville - Chattanooga - Atlanta traffic on CSX is way down.

Someone please tell me if I am wrong.

even with down traffic, in this day and age what host railroad will allow NEW passenger service on any of their tracks WITHOUT capacity increase funding?

66

Dcmcrider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It almost goes without saying that  Amtrak *did*
> serve all those places, and walked away from them
> all, in a perennial quest to "cut its way to
> prosperity." 
>
Not always true.  Certainly the big reduction in the early 80's was not  Amtrak's idea but was dictated by the Reagan Administration.  Others, Minneapolis-Duluth for example, occurred when states withdrew support.

Gordon

gbmott Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dcmcrider Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It almost goes without saying that  Amtrak
> *did*
> > serve all those places, and walked away from
> them
> > all, in a perennial quest to "cut its way to
> > prosperity." 
> >
> Not always true.  Certainly the big reduction in
> the early 80's was not  Amtrak's idea but was
> dictated by the Reagan Administration.  Others,
> Minneapolis-Duluth for example, occurred when
> states withdrew support.

Actually, the deepest cuts to the route map during that era occurred under the Carter administration.

Reagan was certainly no fan of Amtrak, but let's assign the blame for that specific round of train-offs where it belongs.

Another issue... a passenger train coming off the ex-NC&StL into Atlanta would have to do a backup move around the Howell wye to access Peachtree Station. I can't imagine NS being happy about that.

ctillnc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another issue... a passenger train coming off the
> ex-NC&StL into Atlanta would have to do a backup
> move around the Howell wye to access Peachtree
> Station. I can't imagine NS being happy about
> that.

I doubt NS would allow Peachtree to be used.

Here's a thought. Require whoever redevelops the Tilford Yard land to include a terminal for Atlanta intercity passenger trains. Not downtown? Neither is the airport.

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do they have equipment available to cover these
> services?

The Horizon fleet is going to be surplus shortly and can easily be converted into inter-regional style cars.

gbmott Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dcmcrider Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It almost goes without saying that  Amtrak
> *did*
> > serve all those places, and walked away from
> them
> > all, in a perennial quest to "cut its way to
> > prosperity." 
> >
> Not always true.  Certainly the big reduction in
> the early 80's was not  Amtrak's idea but was
> dictated by the Reagan Administration.  Others,
> Minneapolis-Duluth for example, occurred when
> states withdrew support.

Who can foget the infamous Reagan cuts to Amtrak in 1979, two years before he wa elected, where he personally targetted the Floridian and National Limited.

cabsignaldrop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shame Nashville to Chicago is not proposed.

Good lord, why?

Nashville is the #1 travel destination to/from Atlanta (and those two are the 21st largest city pair travel market in the country), and its not even close.  #2 is Birmingham at 2/3 the market size.  Nashville-Chicago doesn't even make the list of top 250 city pairs nationwide.  Atlanta is also a destination market 3 times the size of Knoxville and 4 times the size of Memphis for Nashville.  Atlanta-Nashville is as big as the Atlanta-Jacksonville/Orlando/Tampa/West Palm/Miami markets combined.

The problem with myopic Amtrak fans is they don't even realize there are other travel markets besides going to NYC, Chicago, and California.

abyler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nashville is the #1 travel destination to/from
> Atlanta (and those two are the 21st largest city
> pair travel market in the country), and its not
> even close.  #2 is Birmingham at 2/3 the market
> size.  Nashville-Chicago doesn't even make the
> list of top 250 city pairs nationwide.  Atlanta
> is also a destination market 3 times the size of
> Knoxville and 4 times the size of Memphis for
> Nashville.  Atlanta-Nashville is as big as the
> Atlanta-Jacksonville/Orlando/Tampa/West Palm/Miami
> markets combined.

Thanks abyler for that data. As a native and resident of the area in between that is very interesting data. Trouble is that the travel origins and destinations are so spread out in the metropolitan areas that ii is hard to beat personal vehicle travel.

Also Nashville to Atlanta is mostly on pre-Civil War alignments and my understanding is that much of the right of way is not very wide. It will take some imagination and money to come up with something viable.

ronald321 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chicago-Memphis should be easy -- simply extend
> existing Carbondale trains.
> But, only blood curdling fights with the CN can be
> expected.
>
> With regard to the other cities mention, I doubt
> if "passenger ready" tracks exist anymore.
> .  Chicago-Louisville - I believe only the
> X-Monon still exist (a very slow route)
> .  Columbus -  The X-PRR is gone as a through
> route to St. Louis or New York, Also, don't know
> If a direct line to Chicago still exist.
> .  Nashville-Atlanta.  I think the X-L&N line is
> still capable of passenger train speeds--but, I'm
> not positive.
>
> Is my assessment basically right?

Doesn't Amtrak already serve Memphis??

Posted from Android