Passenger Trains > Another passenger transportation service in trouble...

Alaskan ferries, not passenger railroads, but a service requiring large governmental subsidies:

"However, unlike its asphalt counterparts, Alaska’s marine highway system would disappear overnight without government funding. Ticket sales account for about a third of its operating costs, and the state pays for the remainder."

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/01/alaskas-ferry-system-is-in-danger/605164/

This and so many other issues that this Governor Dunleavy was initiating were being talked about by Alaskans while I was there in the Summer. The summary version, and this is from people on the ferry, on the buses and on the Alaska Railroad was that this governer ran on a campaign that everyone would would get a big check from Alaska Permanent Fund. He is actually making it happen but with huge cuts on everything including medical and drug rehab programs. When you go to Anchorage and ride around and see how many homeless people there are they are there in part because of this Dunleavy's budget cuts. The elimination of AMHS would have at least some affect on Alaska Railroad as myself and others used ARR to connect to the AMHS at Whittier.

A lot of people in Alaska hate this Governor, and after being up there for two weeks I do too...

Jim 

tq-07fan Wrote:
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> A lot of people in Alaska hate this Governor, and
> after being up there for two weeks I do too...

Seems to be a pattern in Alaska.  Awhile back, in Fairbanks, the people hated that there property taxes were so high.  So they had a vote on cutting those taxes.  The borough government (what counties are called in Alaska) simply told them that if they cut the property taxes, other fees such as waste disposal fees would have to increase dramatically.  They passed the cut anyway and then had an absolute cow when many fees were increased.  The reversed the tax cut at the next election.

The Permanent Fund Dividend is the holy grail in Alaska, free money for everyone.  While the fund makes a decent return, oil revenue has dropped by a huge amount in the past 5 years (yes all that oil out of the Bakken didn't help) so the chose is simple, you have three options:
1)  Increase other, not oil taxes, like income
2)  Cut the dividend and use that money to fund government spending
3)  Keep the dividend and massive cut government spending (the deficit is so big, they could layoff every state employee and it wouldn't be enough)

Options 1 and 2 were very unpopular.  The prior Governor chose Option 2 and it got him kicked out of office (the fact his running mate for Lieutenant Governor dropped out one week before the election for sexual harassment didn't help).  Governor Dunleavy ran on Option 3 and everyone loved him until the massive cuts were proposed last year.  
 

Have only taken the AMHS once, from Juneau to Whittier (two nights at sea) on the M/V Kennicott. This was late September/early October, not a peak time for travel, but passenger loads were light compared to the vessel's capacity. The vehicle hold, on the other hand, was pretty full.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/20 09:12 by ctillnc.

But they'll all die-hard, independent, I-can-do-it-myself, don't need Gov't help Republicans!

I love it when these kinds of voters come up against spending reality i.e.  you're not so Republican after all.  In fact, you're probaby the most socialist state in the nation.

Thats the problem with socialism you eventually run out of money. And you get people used to free money they want more.

Posted from Android

Alaska leads the nation in Federal expenditures per capita at over $17,000 per person.

Source: Fox business

B&OB

 

This was the scuttlebutt from the crews when I rode this past September. I rode from Bellingham, Washington to Juneau, Alaska on the Columbia, stayed a couple days in Juneau, then rode the Tazlina (smaller ferry) Juneau to Skagway. I had a car and didn't book a room- I just crashed on a bench in the observation area up front....but it wasn't cheap because I wasn't an Alaska resident. My personal view is you can keep your cruise ships- this was the way to go. Stays closer to the inside passageway than the big ships do, scenery was absolutely stunning, and you got to see some of the "backwater" areas of SE Alaska. It is indeed a service that appears to be needed- we stopped at several ports that had no other outside access other than a float plane. I also travelled in the "off" season but there was a decent crowd and a belly full of cars and trucks. Meal service was a highlight for me, very much reminding me of what a good dinner in the diner was on Amtrak at one time. Again, not cheap but not outrageous either- and one could bring their own meals on board and use the available microwave to heat things up. It's like anything else that hauls people around- it's going to cost money to operate even if that money isn't an outright subsidy (think airlines using funded airports). The folks in Alaska are going to have to decide what they want with this AMHS- if they want it at all. There are many parallels to Amtrak's long distant trains, but mostly in the form of lots of money going to subsidize a small piece of the total transportation pie. Sound familiar ? Anyway, I didn't know this service was in jeopardy until I was on board and underway, so I'm glad I booked my little adventure to include this ride- it was worth every penny.

Columbia at Bellingham as I was waiting to drive on.
Tazlina at Auke Bay (Juneau terminal)
AMHS drydock at Ketchikan, Ak

Roger Durfee
Akron, OH

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This is part of the highway system of Alaska.  NO highway in this country makes money except toll roads.  If the true costs of the Interstate Highway system were paid by drivers, there would be a public riot, just like Alaska.  

MEKoch Wrote:
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> This is part of the highway system of Alaska.  NO
> highway in this country makes money except toll
> roads.  If the true costs of the Interstate
> Highway system were paid by drivers, there would
> be a public riot, just like Alaska.  

Yep- reinforces my "hauling people doesn't make money without some subsidy" thoughts, be it train, plane, highway or boat. Many of the ports- including Juneau- are landlocked from the outside highway world but have many cars running around. I see the service surviving but in a form similar to Anderson's Amtrak with cuts and cutbacks. No sit down meal service, fare hikes, crew reductions, etc, and even resorting to a schedule of short hops with overnight layovers in certain towns. It's going to be interesting to see what happens.

Roger Durfee
Akron, OH

Are there ferries between Seattle and Alaska ? 

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> Are there ferries between Seattle and Alaska ? 

Apparently just the Alaska state ferries from Bellingham, WA:

http://dot.alaska.gov/amhs/route.shtml
 

In theory you can go Bellingham all the way to Dutch Harbor -- if you can afford it, if you have the time, and if you have the stomach for it. The vessels are comfortable, but we're not talking Royal Caribbean or the Queen Mary II. Ocean conditions can get rough. 

If you pass through Yakutat, take note of http://yakutat-southern.org/. Be sure to drop by Fat Grandma's for a coffee.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/20 16:10 by ctillnc.

The Tazlina is a handsome vessel!

Jeez, Alaska is getting almost as bad as my home state of California when politics get out of hand!

Posted from Android

The "true cost" of highways is all public record, no big secret.
Our problem in Calif was that the GOP and Dems in the legislature refused to index taxes to costs for 20 years as
cars got more effcient and fuel costs rose. They finally raised taxes which survived a negatve ballot mesure.
Life goes on... There is no free lunch!

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

ts1457 Wrote:
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> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Are there ferries between Seattle and Alaska
> ? 
>
> Apparently just the Alaska state ferries from
> Bellingham, WA:
>
> http://dot.alaska.gov/amhs/route.shtml
>  
At one time, the Alaska state ferries came in to Seattle, but the terminal was later moved to Bellingham to shorten the route.

I don't know much of the history of Alaska State Ferries, but I do know the history of the British Columbia Ferry Corporation.

For many years, ocean transport from the lower mainland (Vancouver) and Vancouver Island up the Inside Passage was handled by CP (BC Coastal Steamships), CN, and Union Steamship Company. I think all three companies served Skagway , Alaska.

In the early 1960's, there was a prolonged strike by all the sailors working for the private enterprise coastal shipping companies in BC, and W.A.C.Bennett, the Premier of BC had the Provincial Government take over all the ferry routes except Black Ball from Victoria to Port Angeles WA. He hid some of the cost of purchasing and establishing the ferry system by including it in the "transportation budget" which included the cost of highways, and railways (BC Rail). 

Over the past sixty years, the number of routes and the number of vessels have vastly expanded. The cost of the ferry system is a huge expense to the BC Government and its taxpayers, and has always been a source of political friction and dialogue. This still goes on today.

BC Ferries has served Prince Rupert for many years and I have always wondered how many Alaskans use the BC Prince Rupert ships to access the State of Alaska.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/20 08:41 by eminence_grise.

eminence_grise Wrote:
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> BC Ferries has served Prince Rupert for many years
> and I have always wondered how many Alaskans use
> the BC Prince Rupert ships to access the State of
> Alaska.

Do the BC Ferries go to Alaska? The Alaskan Marine Highway System serves Prince Rupert for travel to and from Alaska.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/20 09:13 by ts1457.

ts1457 Wrote:
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> eminence_grise Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BC Ferries has served Prince Rupert for many
> years
> > and I have always wondered how many Alaskans
> use
> > the BC Prince Rupert ships to access the State
> of
> > Alaska.
>
> Do the BC Ferries go to Alaska? The Alaskan Marine
> Highway System serves Prince Rupert for travel to
> and from Alaska.

No, but Alaska Ferries go to Prince Rupert,BC  to a dock adjacent to BC Ferries.