Passenger Trains > Amtrak caves on $25,000 charge for wheelchair group

Amtrak backs away from $25G ticket price for 2 riders in wheelchairs
By Louis Casiano | Fox News 

Amid mounting pressure over its charging $25,000 to two wheelchair users for a one-way train ride that normally costs a few dollars, Amtrak reportedly said Monday it can find space to accommodate the customers for the regular price.

The solution came after criticism of the train operator from disability-rights advocates and Sen. Tammy Duckworth, D-Ill, NPR reported.

Two riders, who use power wheelchairs and are members of Chicago-based disability advocacy group Access Living, planned to take a train ride from Chicago to Bloomington, Ill., for a statewide conference.  Tickets for the two-hour trip normally cost $16.

However, an Amtrak group sales agent told the pair were told they would need to pay $25,000 to reconfigure a train car to make space for them.  The group objected to the extra charge.  Access Living has 10 staff members going to the conference, five of whom use wheelchairs.   The train heading to Bloomington has three cars with a space in each for wheelchair users, NPR reported.

"With the removal of seats, it can be quite costly," a sales agent wrote to the group. "In previous years the removal of seats from the coach cars incurred fees that Amtrak absorbed. ... We understand and appreciate your loyalty with Amtrak. Going forward, we cannot continue to absorb these fees. These policies have changed nationwide as of 2019."

On Monday, after mounting pressure, Amtrak said the group can take the train at no additional cost. Duckworth, an Iraq War veteran who uses prosthetic legs and a wheelchair, criticized the high ticket prices.  She said she would request with company CEO Richard Anderson to discuss eliminating Amtrak's "nationwide policy of refusing to absorb any costs associated with reconfiguring a railcar to accommodate a group of wheelchair users." 

In a series of Sunday tweets, she said the American with Disabilities Act "has been the law of the land for 30 years. Yet in 2020, @Amtrak believes it would be an unreasonable burden to remove architectural barriers that would enable a group with five wheelchair users to travel together," she posted.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/amtrak-backs-away-25g-ticket-riders-in-wheelchairs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/20 20:20 by GenePoon.

Amtrak has managed to shoot itself in the butt again and piss off another US Senator, this time a non-NEC Democrat. Just another day Anderson-Trak and Gardner-Trak.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/20 03:55 by joemvcnj.

anderson loves to get bad press for amtrak

              And as is very typical now days, NO ONE at Amtrak is in any trouble at all and never will be for attempting to rob these disabled folks of $25,000. They are also never going to be hed accountable for creating this ill will and the totally ignoramous stupidity of the statements they made trying to get anyone to believe the crap about needing $25,000.

Anderson sure knows how to piss people off, but I’m guessing it’s all part of his 3 dimensional chess plan to expand Amtrak??

I wonder where another-view is?

It's a well known " secret" that Anderson is in very bad health and will be leaving sooner than later. His # 1 Lt. Gardner is fully supportive of and gladly executing Anderson's plans and will very likely follow him into the CEO's slot. 

   IMHO the best plan for us Amtrak supporters is to do all we can to submit constructive critisisms and work hard to see that the LDT's survive.

    Ross Rowland 

co614 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a well known " secret" that Anderson is in
> very bad health and will be leaving sooner than
> later. His # 1 Lt. Gardner is fully supportive of
> and gladly executing Anderson's plans and will
> very likely follow him into the CEO's slot. 
>
>    IMHO the best plan for us Amtrak supporters
> is to do all we can to submit constructive
> critisisms and work hard to see that the LDT's
> survive.
>
>     Ross Rowland 

Constructiveness is best always....but I think that Long Distance Passenger service in the USA is on borrowed time....and with the crappiness of airline service, that's a bad bad thing as most of us would agree.  

co614 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a well known " secret" that Anderson is in
> very bad health and will be leaving sooner than
> later. His # 1 Lt. Gardner is fully supportive of
> and gladly executing Anderson's plans and will
> very likely follow him into the CEO's slot. 
>
>    IMHO the best plan for us Amtrak supporters
> is to do all we can to submit constructive
> critisisms and work hard to see that the LDT's
> survive.
>
>     Ross Rowland 
You mean he may be going the way of EHH?  that bad? 

So much for Anderson's purported respect for the law, a 30 year old one at that. I think Congress overall would have less tolerance for Gardner pulling the same shenanigans as Anderson. They are already wearing thin of Amtrak's corporate suite. Anderson has been a career corporate executive, which may have some corporate types act with some pause as to taking him to task out of professional respect, however undeserved.

OTOH, Gardner has been nothing more than a Democratic Hill staffer, worked for a short-line RR, then resided at Amtrak for 11 years, where he has been Peter-Principled to COO position. His rabbis are Director Carper, Chair Coscia, and Minority Leader Schumer. But that will not cut it for anyone outside the NEC, especially pro-Amtrak Republicans and rural Blue Dog Democrats. Illinois Democrats and SW Chief delegation have already had a belly-full. 

This example shows they are just as calous toward corridor passengers as any other. ADA laws cannot be disregarded by a corporate policy. They said the train was 3 cars, which sounds short for a Lincoln service trains. Not an ideal situation for the group, but they could have placed them in each of the likely 5 cars.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/20 09:19 by joemvcnj.

Trying to charge or gouge a prospective and loyal Amtrak passenger to cover costs of providing ADA access is a public relations nightmare. It is ludicrous to say, Sorry, but all of our ADA spaces are taken on that train. May we charge you $25,000 to convert a car?  They broke a well established policy resulting in what appears to be a flagrant violation of the law.  Even if Amtrak is so strapped for cash and viable equipment, that they cannot afford to put on another car, they should have offered upfront a seat on another train. This is not diner-lite or discontinuance of a Pacific Parlour car, but a serious reversal of generally acceptable policies towards complying with the ADA law.

It is sad to see that it took Amtrak so long to figure it out.  Good for Tammy too.  Now if only Amtrak can turn this lemon into lemonade and bolster the case to acquire more, new equipment.  But I doubt they can or shall.  This whole fiasco demonstrates more than ever to me, that Amtrak is not interested nor intending to provide a well rounded, national, rail passenger transportation network.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/20 17:28 by Hou74-76.

The ADA and any number of other protective programs such as the clean water act, anti-discrimination laws, and environmental protection, are in the process of being scaled back or even rescinded by the current national administration.  A do-nothing Congress is playing along. The federal court systems are being overhauled to the extent that if the repeal of these programs cannot occur through executive action alone, the courts will do it.

In particular, it will be much easier for the government to take property from private citizens without any need for any public review or comment.  Much of the property will then be given to big business friends of the boughten politicians.

You can make what you want of the way things are going.

Just curious. How many wheelchair/handicapped seats are required to be provided on airliners?

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just curious. How many wheelchair/handicapped
> seats are required to be provided on airliners?

Pretty much all of the seats on the plane are.  There are some restrictions on exit rows. 

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/passengers-disabilities

"Airlines may not limit the number of persons with disabilities on a flight.
Airlines may not keep anyone out of a specific seat on the basis of disability, or require anyone to sit in a particular seat on the basis of disability, except to comply with FAA or foreign-government safety requirements. FAA's rule on exit row seating says that airlines may place in exit rows only persons who can perform a series of functions necessary in an emergency evacuation."

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just curious. How many wheelchair/handicapped
> seats are required to be provided on airliners?

As a caregiver to a quadriplegic wheelchair user I can answer that one. My disabled person has traveled with me many times both by Amtrak and air. The airlines, so far as I know, do not have any special wheelchair spaces. 

We travel with his disassemblable/collapsible wheelchair (never a power chair only manual).  He transfers (with my assistance)  at the entrance to the plane to an airline-provided "aisle chair" which is a small chair designed to travel down the aisle of an airplane. His own personal wheel chair is turned over to a baggage handler at the airplane door and is stowed in the baggage compartment.  At the assigned seat I assist him to transfer from the "aisle chair" to a conventional (uncomfortable of course) airline seat. This is all done prior to the other non-disabled passengers boarding. The process is done in reverse at the destination. He is always the last one off the plane. If you have done much flying I am sure you have seen pieces of this procedure.  This seems to be standard international procedure. It has been my experience that the airlines and the employees involved are all very familiar with this procedure and it seems to work as reasonably well. We flew on a small airplane in Poland and the Polish flight and ground crews all seemed comfortable with doing it this way.

And, no, he is never charged any extra amount.  

John Webb
Trinidad, CA

John is correct.  A standard wheelchair strapped to the floor of an airliner would be a major hazard in the event of a crash or perhaps even severe turbulence.  On most airliners the aisle seats have provision for transfer from a special wheelchair that will fit down the aisle; the armrest folds up. Unlike the folding armrests elsewhere in the seat row, this one latches in the down position. In fact when I ride on an airliner, I unlatch and fold up that armrest when leaving my seat.  That makes it easier for those in the window and center (if appliable) seats to exit. 

John is also correct in that every airline cabin crew member and gate agent knows what to do. I believe that every one is required, as a part of their training, to actually DO it competently, or they don't pass their training.  They don't just sit and watch someone else do it, and thus get qualified (yes, this is another reference to the deadly Amtrak crash at Dead Man's Curve in Washington).

Winnemucca Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a caregiver to a quadriplegic wheelchair user I
> can answer that one. My disabled person has
> traveled with me many times both by Amtrak and
> air. The airlines, so far as I know, do not have
> any special wheelchair spaces. 
>
> We travel with his disassemblable/collapsible
> wheelchair (never a power chair only manual).  He
> transfers (with my assistance)  at the entrance
> to the plane to an airline-provided "aisle chair"
> which is a small chair designed to travel down the
> aisle of an airplane. His own personal wheel chair
> is turned over to a baggage handler at the
> airplane door and is stowed in the baggage
> compartment.  At the assigned seat I assist him
> to transfer from the "aisle chair" to a
> conventional (uncomfortable of course) airline
> seat. This is all done prior to the other
> non-disabled passengers boarding. The process is
> done in reverse at the destination. He is always
> the last one off the plane. If you have done much
> flying I am sure you have seen pieces of this
> procedure.  This seems to be standard
> international procedure. It has been my experience
> that the airlines and the employees involved are
> all very familiar with this procedure and it seems
> to work as reasonably well. We flew on a small
> airplane in Poland and the Polish flight and
> ground crews all seemed comfortable with doing it
> this way.
>
> And, no, he is never charged any extra amount.  

Thanks, I appreciate it. I thought it was something like that. 

So depending on the exact amount of space that one needs,  a reasonable number of disabled/handicapped can be accommodated on a flight?

Looks like the difference is that on a train, wheelchair bound people get to keep their wheelchair.
 

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> John is correct.  A standard wheelchair strapped
> to the floor of an airliner would be a major
> hazard in the event of a crash or perhaps even
> severe turbulence.  On most airliners the aisle
> seats have provision for transfer from a special
> wheelchair that will fit down the aisle; the
> armrest folds up. Unlike the folding armrests
> elsewhere in the seat row, this one latches in the
> down position. In fact when I ride on an airliner,
> I unlatch and fold up that armrest when leaving my
> seat.  That makes it easier for those in the
> window and center (if appliable) seats to exit. 

How are the wheelchairs secured on a train? I would think that unsecured wheelchairs would be dangerous in a train wreck.

Amtrak runs extra cars on trains out of Chicago on the CN for axle counts.  Why in the HELL could they not add a couple of additional cars to Lincoln service trains to handle these individuals.  Travel by wheelchair is a pain in the ass (I know...my daughter uses one) but rail travel can be a viable option.  Way to piss off potential customers Amtrak!

Winnemucca Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> As a caregiver to a quadriplegic wheelchair user I can answer that one. My disabled person has traveled with me many times both by Amtrak and air. The airlines, so far as I know, do not have any special wheelchair spaces. 
>
> We travel with his disassemblable/collapsible wheelchair (never a power chair only manual).  He transfers (with my assistance)  at the entrance to the plane to an airline-provided "aisle chair" which is a small chair designed to travel down the aisle of an airplane. His own personal wheel chair is turned over to a baggage handler at the airplane door and is stowed in the baggage compartment.  At the assigned seat I assist him to transfer from the "aisle chair" to a conventional (uncomfortable of course) airline seat. This is all done prior to the other non-disabled passengers boarding. The process is done in reverse at the destination. He is always the last one off the plane. If you have done much flying I am sure you have seen pieces of this procedure.  This seems to be standard international procedure. It has been my experience that the airlines and the employees involved are all very familiar with this procedure and it seems to work as reasonably well. We flew on a small airplane in Poland and the Polish flight and ground crews all seemed comfortable with doing it this way.
>
> And, no, he is never charged any extra amount.  

So on other words what the airlines do is totally not applicable in the instant case.

Offering to transfer the passenger from his wheelchair to a seat is not at all what would solved this.  The next train was scheduled three hours later and would not have solved this.

Let me know when a person who uses a wheelchair can demand that he remains in his wheelchair during a flight.

I do not believe that qualifies as a reasonable accommodation for an airplane, why should it for a train?


Brian

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So depending on the exact amount of space that one
> needs,  a reasonable number of
> disabled/handicapped can be accommodated on a
> flight?
>
> Looks like the difference is that on a train,
> wheelchair bound people get to keep their
> wheelchair.

Any wheelchair bound person could opt for the same procedure on the train as on a plane and use any seat they wished, with their wheelchair being stowed in the floor level luggage rack at the end of the car and an attendant travellign with them to help them in and out of their seat and wheelchair.

Its the desire to use non-collapsable powered wheelchairs and to remain in them that requires special accomodation on the train with seats having been removed in every car to accomodate a single person travelling this way. Amtrak generously provides one such space per car.  The airlines and intercity buses provide none and are not required to provide any such accomodation.