Passenger Trains > New Anderson Article Coronavirus

Don't think this has been posted on TO. Very good info.

“I’m certain that the long-distance network will be very different longer term,” Anderson said.


https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/intercity/a-sully-moment-for-amtraks-anderson/

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/20 17:01 by 41bridge.

"Of those riders, only 3% actually rode end-to-end."

Anderson just will not let go of that irrelevant metric. You could probably say that of any NEC train running between Massachusetts and Virginia. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/20 17:44 by joemvcnj.

The Railway Age article quotes Amtrak president Anderson (to April 15) as saying more cutbacks in service would be coming, commensurate with lower ridership and reductions in advance bookings. Amtrak has no control over which State-sponsored trains will be cut...that is up to the States...but with a drop in advance Acela bookings of 99%, he suggested that Acela service may be cancelled entirely. Long distance advanced bookings are off 64% and this foretells a 40% drop in long distance capacity.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Of those riders, only 3% actually rode
> end-to-end."
>
> Anderson just will not let go of that irrelevant
> metric. You could probably say that of any NEC
> train running between Massachusetts and
> Virginia. 
If his intention is not to deceive then his level of understanding his own business proves his unfitness for the job thinking he's running planes which only serve end-to-end.   His deception attempts though don't seem to have reached the targets he wants. It's one of his theme songs apparently. He came in with it and likely go out with it.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Of those riders, only 3% actually rode
> end-to-end."
>
That’s actually an argument for LD trains.  If the Empire Builder only existed to get people from Chicago to Seattle, then the critics are right - that’s poor return on investment.  But they exist to provide service to hundreds of communities that lack other viable options.  That is a for more reasonable social investment than just duplicating affordable air service between the top metro areas.

Dave

DavidP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "Of those riders, only 3% actually rode
> > end-to-end."
> >
> That’s actually an argument for LD trains.  If
> the Empire Builder only existed to get people from
> Chicago to Seattle, then the critics are right -
> that’s poor return on investment.  But they
> exist to provide service to hundreds of
> communities that lack other viable options.  That
> is a for more reasonable social investment than
> just duplicating affordable air service between
> the top metro areas.
>
> Dave

This is so obvious, why doesn't anyone call him on it. Him making that statement makes him sound completely ignorant of passenger rail service.

Posted from Android

PRSL-recall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> > "Of those riders, only 3% actually rode
> > end-to-end."
> >
> If his intention is not to deceive then his level
> of understanding his own business proves his
> unfitness for the job thinking he's running planes
> which only serve end-to-end.   His deception
> attempts though don't seem to have reached the
> targets he wants. It's one of his theme songs
> apparently. He came in with it and likely go out
> with it.
We all are aware that Mr. Anderson has been the WRONG person in charge since day one.  He should have never been put in charge since he cannot get it through his thick head about how passenger trains operate and I have said this before.  Most long distance trains run from point A to point Z as a simple way to understand.  Only a small percentage of customers desire and pay to ride the entire route which is from A to Z.  Meanwhile, there are the majority of customers (passengers) who go from point A to point M, while others go from point C to point L, and so forth all along the entire route of A to Z.  This is very simple to understand and even children in kindergarten can grasp this.  But not Anderson and he will never grasp it since he does NOT want to do so.  He has been on the job for one major reason only - to shut down our Amtrak service wherever he can, and now with this pandemic situation, he is using this as ammunition.  With most of us being forced to hunker down now in our homes, we should have the time to send telegrams, E-mails and actual letters to our representative in Washington, D.C.  Yes, I realize that they are busy with trying to get us back to normal from this virus; however, we can still continue to let them know that America does need a balanced transportation system which includes a national network for Amtrak Passenger Trains.  We must remember that there are thousands of citizens in our country who do rely on this service since this is the only public transportation that they have.  Most of us also realize that if we had more trains and better service with on-time operations, many more people would use this service.
John in White Marsh, Maryland

The Empire Builder restricts local travel between Chicago and Milwaukee and very few use it locally between Seattle and Everett. Therefore, there are typically more people on it west of Milwaukee and east of Everett than outside those points, which also cover the endpoints.

On my last ride to the west coast some years ago, I went from Chicago to Everett. The aisle seat was sold 3 times: Chicago - Spokane, Spokane - Ephrata, and Ephrata - Seattle. Turning over a seat more than once usually yields more revenue than a thru ticket. Both seats were filled 98.4 - 100% of the trip, yet none of us were endpoint passengers, which Anderson posits as a deficiency, as travel on LD trains is a few hundred miles and at one end hinged at either Chicago or Seattle/Portland, therefore the train's physical runs should be segmented. There are many hundreds of possible endpoint permutations. The number 906 sticks in my mind for this train. Anderson shows zero grasp of this 11th grade math concepts, while yanking metrics from the monthly reports that does not fit his agenda or that he cannot comprehend. I think he tops Roger Lewis, Tom Downs, and George Warrington in incompetence. 

 Chairman Coscia is also 100% behind him. The entire executive suite of airline hacks and the "Acela" Board should be dismissed.  

Good thing neither of these men run the NYCT or their logic would chop the system into hash. The A train runs 27 miles between Washington Hts, Manhattan and Far Rockaway ,Queens, yet hardly anyone rides from one end to the other. 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/20 04:14 by joemvcnj.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Of those riders, only 3% actually rode end-to-end."


Perhaps _not_ cherry picking the end of a list of statistics would be more honest and provide fruit for thought:

"Emotions run strong when the long-distance network is discussed, but ridership numbers are telling. In reporting record 32.5 million ridership for the fiscal year ending Sept. 30, 2019, the long-distance ridership was but 4.5 million on 15 long-distance trains—less than 15% of total ridership. Of those riders, only 3% actually rode end-to-end."

4.5 divided by 32.5 is . . .  13.8% of Amtrak's customers are long distance train riders.


Brian

We have always been at war with COVID-19

choodude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "Of those riders, only 3% actually rode
> end-to-end."
>
> Perhaps _not_ cherry picking the end of a list of
> statistics would be more honest and provide fruit
> for thought:

Yes, but the quote came within the context of LD trains. 

choodude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "Of those riders, only 3% actually rode
> end-to-end."
>
>
> Perhaps _not_ cherry picking the end of a list of
> statistics would be more honest and provide fruit
> for thought:
>

Good luck with that with some people on this board.

Typhoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> > Perhaps _not_ cherry picking the end of a list
> of
> > statistics would be more honest and provide
> fruit
> > for thought:
> >
>
> Good luck with that with some people on this
> board.



Yes.

Also, everyone in Amtrak operations management knows that most passengers doen't ride long distance trains end-to-end. This includes, of course, Mr. Anderson and senior executives. That is basic information. It's not hidden, it's right up front and is dealt with every day. Origin-Destination numbers for every train are summarized and reported every day, then folded into other reports. Every day. It's amazing that foamers think they've discovered data that management dosen't know about.

Reality is, railfans are not seeing other data and coming to railfan/model railroader/fantasy conclusions.  It is fun to dream though.

G- former Amtrak California manager

P Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> This is so obvious, why doesn't anyone call him
> on it. Him making that statement makes him sound
> completely ignorant of passenger rail service.
>
> Posted from Android

Exactly P! I would LOVE to hear and watch a scenario where in a committee meeting before Congressional members Anderson pulls this famous line of his. After which
one of the committtee members in a quiet and visibly undisturbed way says, "Mr. Anderson, how does that compare with the Corridor trains? Could you please tell me how that compares with the end-to-end statistics Boston to Washington DC and also NYC to Washington? "

As for the statistic elsewhere stated that the total count of LD passengers is 13.8 or 15%, how many passenger miles does it account for and how does that compare. Also how can that percentage be considered as insignificant when comparing to frequent business-type travel many of whom are very frequent riders? The LD system for the most part isn't expected to compare in this way. Teen percentages sound pretty good to me.

It seems basic that any state not receiving Amtrak service (which is supposed to be a national system) would and should have nothing to do with it. At that point I suppose everyone who sees no value in LD trains will and should be perfectly happy.  

Personally I think it very evident that management does know what has been stated in this thread ... what "foamers think they discovered".  That's why I call it intentional deception. The 3% is stated for no other reason than to intentionally downplay the significance of the service and that because such management think they have a better idea than what Amtrak was set up for.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/20 10:36 by PRSL-recall.

That's right - "foamers" didn't discover anything, we just "dared" to question authority, their motives, and their obfuscation of facts. This is not China. Management deliberately hides what they don't want people to know, but rattles off an irrelevant metric to make their point. What the hell difference does it make if someone gets on at Chicago or Glenview, at Seattle or Edmonds.

If NARP had the bawwls and competence, they would pull a FOIA request on every single metric that Amtrak has pulled from their monthly reports and then-some, like all O&D data, load factors along the route, relate to consist size etc, do some analysis, and publicize it. But all of it should be readily available at Amtrak's website. Furthermore, Amtrak's website State fact sheets have not been updated since 2018, and State at economic impact brochures have not been updated since 2016. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/20 10:41 by joemvcnj.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...Management deliberately hides what they
> don't want people to know, but rattles off an
> irrelevant metric to make their point.

Agreed. That's completely different than saying that Amtrak management is not aware of origin-destination figures. They know.


>
> If NARP had the bawwls and competence, they would
> pull a FOIA request on every single metric that
> Amtrak has pulled from their monthly reports and
> then-some, like all O&D data, load factors along
> the route, relate to consist size etc, do some
> analysis, and publicize it. Furthermore, Amtrak's
> website State fact sheets have not been updated
> since 2018, and State at economic impact brochures
> have not been updated since 2016. 



Not just NARP. I've long advocated that, as a quasi-government entity, Amtrak make available to everyone all ridership and financial data, down to every ticket purchace. Withhold only names and other passenger-specific data for privacy reasons.

Put it all out there. Let everyone / anyone crunch real numbers and publicize results. I'm sure we agree on that.

There are patterns hidden in the numbers that Amtrak management misses. But simple O-D data isn't one of them- that was my point.

Show all the cards. More good than harm will result.

Duna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ...Management deliberately hides what they
> > don't want people to know, but rattles off an
> > irrelevant metric to make their point.
>
> Agreed. That's completely different than saying
> that Amtrak management is not aware of
> origin-destination figures. They know.
>

Yup, but it's not unique to Amtrak. I experienced plenty of that within BN as one level of management lied to the next level up and so on and so on and so on.

TAW