Passenger Trains > Caltrans and XpressWest Complete Lease Agreement for I-15 ROW

https://www.vvng.com/caltrans-and-xpresswest-complete-lease-agreement-for-high-speed-rail-service-along-i-15/

SAN BERNARDINO, Calif. — The California Department of Transportation (Caltrans) on authority from the California State Transportation Agency has entered into a lease agreement allowing XpressWest, a Brightline company, to use existing State right-of-way along Interstate 15 for high-speed passenger rail service between the Town of Apple Valley (near Victorville) and Las Vegas.

 

How about your opinion on this announcement? I'll reserve mine while I read the article again to search for something of substance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/20 17:29 by cchan006.

So they actually think their train can handle the grades encountered going over Mountain Pass. This I want to see.

Its past Cajon so not too bad a hill right?

Posted from Android

goduckies Wrote:
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> Its past Cajon so not too bad a hill right?

That's the wishful thinking. The Mojave Desert might look "flat" but "tilted" is a much better description when driving along I-15.

This "lease agreement" announcement doesn't even go there. Nowhwere does it say most of I-!5 ROW will be used. 

Mountain Pass is a pretty good climb which is why the UP tracks are about 35 miles to the south.

PHall Wrote:
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> Mountain Pass is a pretty good climb which is why
> the UP tracks are about 35 miles to the south.

6% maximum grade, 4.3% average grade for the Mountain Pass is what I found with a quick Internet lookup.

That exceeds the highest grade on the Shinkansen system, 3%, where the track speed on that segment is below the maximum speed achievable for a train set, at 210 km/h (130 mph). For local service that has to make a stop before climbing the grade, the train can only achieve 170 km/h (106 mph) due to lack of "forward momentum."

Maybe paying the UP to upgrade theirs to allow "higher speed" trains and sharing their tracks might be a better idea?

Running on the UP would mean that you would miss the one metropolis of note in the area, Baker. 

Out 

Early proposal map showed them following I-15 until the Mountain Pass climb. There they diverted to the south closer to UP. No idea if this is still the idea.

Posted from iPhone

howeld Wrote:
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> Early proposal map showed them following I-15
> until the Mountain Pass climb. There they diverted
> to the south closer to UP. No idea if this is
> still the idea.

The final set of plans submitted back in 2011 showed a maximum grade of 4.50% on the climb to both Mountain Pass and Holloran Summit.  The preferred alignment back then was a northbound train would leave the I-15 right-of-way at the Mountain Pass summit and curve north.  It would punch thru the ridgeline in a tunnel then use the side of the mountains to drop down to Primm.  It would pass north of the current solar plants near Primm.  Brightline has chosen to modify its route in some locations to other approved alternative routes, so this might have changed.  I have not seen any of the revised plans yet.

Why bother building a new line when they can pay Union Pacific to double-track the LA&SL?

Is welded rail more expensive to install than jointed rail?

The new route will be fully electrified and back to 186mph. It was previously slated for diesel trains and 125mph. XpressWest was 150mph electrified trains, Virgin has changed it to 186mph. 

It'll also be fully double-tracked...

Macster Wrote:
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> The new route will be fully electrified and back
> to 186mph. It was previously slated for diesel
> trains and 125mph. XpressWest was 150mph
> electrified trains, Virgin has changed it to
> 186mph. 
>
> It'll also be fully double-tracked...

I brought up the 3% Shinkansen grade in my previous post for a reason. All the speed it just talk. Refer to TAW regarding the "consultant" practice of molding "studies" to fit the speed.

275 km/h capable train set can only achieve 210 km/h on a 3% grade, and slower if making a station stop before the climb. So Virgin "changing" it from 150 to 186 mph doesn't mean much, until there's a REAL article regarding this project, where the route is discussed in technical detail.

Are electric locomotives cheaper to run than diesel?

Posted from iPhone

anybody KNOW what the ridership PROJECTIONS are for this train?

just curious............

66

cchan006 Wrote:
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> 275 km/h capable train set can only achieve 210
> km/h on a 3% grade, and slower if making a station
> stop before the climb. So Virgin "changing" it
> from 150 to 186 mph doesn't mean much, until
> there's a REAL article regarding this project,
> where the route is discussed in technical detail.

I get the impression that the True HSR fanatics envision a train with no throttle, just an on/off switch. At leaving time, the engineer moves the switch from off to on and the train is running at WARP 2 or whatever TRUE high speed is. At the destination, the engineer returns the switch to off and the train stops.

TAW

I don't mean to be unkind, but there are a lot of gullible people on this board. People, look at Amtrak's history for the last 49 years and all the proposals and plans and announcements that never materialized. Perhaps construction will actually start, but this line will never be completed nor haul one passenger to Vegas. If anything would materialize, it will probably end up being some kind of arrangement using the UP. Look at your history! One man's opinion.

41bridge Wrote:
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> I don't mean to be unkind, but there are a lot of
> gullible people on this board. People, look at
> Amtrak's history for the last 49 years and all the
> proposals and plans and announcements that never
> materialized. Perhaps construction will actually
> start, but this line will never be completed nor
> haul one passenger to Vegas. If anything would
> materialize, it will probably end up being some
> kind of arrangement using the UP. Look at your
> history! One man's opinion.


I was told by the knowledgeable experts that

• nobody would ever ride Sounder trains,
• A passenger train could not operate between Seattle and Vancouver BC in less than 5h30m
• No passenger train could run between Seattle and Portland in less than 4h,
• The Sounder and Caascades trains would cause the elimination of freight trains and the bankruptcy of BN,
• The Oregon and Washington ports (Everett, Seattle, Tacoma, Grays Harbor, Longview, Kalama, Vancouver, and Portland woudl all lose all their business and close because of passenger trains,
• By developing the Sounder and Cascades services, I would be personally responsible for all of those Bad Things.

Looking at history, none of that occurred.

TAW

41bridge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't mean to be unkind, but there are a lot of
> gullible people on this board. People, look at
> Amtrak's history for the last 49 years and all the
> proposals and plans and announcements that never
> materialized. Perhaps construction will actually
> start, but this line will never be completed nor
> haul one passenger to Vegas. If anything would
> materialize, it will probably end up being some
> kind of arrangement using the UP. Look at your
> history! One man's opinion.

I think you missed a fact. This has nothing to do with Amtrak.

here is how i view the target market that drives to vegas:

1. get out of los angeles basin a.s.a.p. by avoiding as much traffic congestion as possible.

2.  relax and blast across the desert with MINIMAL stops.

3. as soon as the strip was in view, get to your hotel a.s.a.p.

when i drove, that is what i sure did..........

66



 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/20 17:22 by goneon66.