Passenger Trains > T..S.A. Security at Railroad stations

After watching the video of an attack by an individual on a train crew member where they threw rocks at the train and the employee, it seems apparent that there is a serious lapse in security in this country's train station's boarding process.

Why are the railroads, Amtrak and the Federal Government allowing the travelling public to be exposed to such risk?  Why aren't T.S.A. screening and security measures in place at each and every station for train passenger's safety? 

With the multi-billion's being authorized in taxpayer funds, it should be adopted to help keep passengers and employees safer.  



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/20 12:18 by Molino.

Risk not worth the expense. 

So two TSA guys are stationed at say Shelby, MT (or pick one of a hundred other small isolated stops). Two trains daily. Perhaps soon to be only 6 per week. What are they suppose to do the rest of the time?  Good police work at major stations could help solve the problem.  I think most of us don't want to go through a TSA type screening process every time we board a train. Especially since it can't get hijacked or blown out of the sky. 

I've read about and seen videos of TSA Viper Squad going to stations. 

is there a problem with safety on passenger/commuter trains?

is there a problem with VULNERABLE people feeling intimidated on passenger/commuter trains?

66
 

First, there is risk in everything you do.  You run the risk of getting attacked if you go to the grocery store (probably a high risk that getting attacked at La Plata, MO), so do you propose have a police officer assigned to each individual full-time to protect them from every risk?  Are there ways to mitigate risk, sure but not guarantee it doesn't happen.

Second thing, what particular risk factors to do propose they use to prevent this from happening?  What about the guy that is behaving normally who boards the train then either gets drunk or gets bad news from the wife and then goes into a frenzy.  Stopping alcohol sales might itself lead to the same problem.

Third, the nation is just too big with too many locations to provide a constant presence.  I have a feeling if what you want to happen did occur, TSA agents at every station, you would be complaining about the waste of money for these employees literally working maybe 30 minutes a day.  As far has the cost is concened, its more than just two employees at each location.  You would need 4 or possible 8 employees for any location served daily by just two trains.  2 per day plus 2 for weekend and vacation/sick relief, double this if the trains are scheduled to arrive more than 8 hours apart.  If you include x-ray and other screening equipment (along with associated station modifications), the cost is very high.  Remember too, this needs to be done at every bus stop as well, many of which are just a point on the map with no station facilities whatosever.

Utlimately, lets not forget that nobody was hurt in this encounter (as far as I understand it) and the man was arrested.

Molino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After watching the video of an attack by an
> individual on a train crew member where they threw
> rocks at the train and the employee, it seems
> apparent that there is a serious lapse in security
> in this country's train station's boarding
> process.
>
> Why are the railroads, Amtrak and the Federal
> Government allowing the travelling public to be
> exposed to such risk?  Why aren't T.S.A.
> screening and security measures in place at each
> station for train passenger's safety? 
>
> With the multi-billion's being authorized in
> taxpayer funds, it should be adopted to help keep
> passengers and employees safer.  

Thank you 4th District for the corrected information, I didn't hear about those details.

4thDistrict Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BNSF6400 Wrote:
>
> > Utlimately, lets not forget that nobody was
> hurt
> > in this encounter (as far as I understand it)
> and
> > the man was arrested.
>
> One of the conductors was injured and his glasses
> were broken. Paramedics were called to attend to
> him and an ambulance as called but only stood by
> and eventually left. The injury was minor and he
> was seen leaving the train and entering the
> station to give his report on what happened. He
> boarded the train a few minutes later and the
> train left. 
>
> There is a video posted on TO. Here is a link to
> it: https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.p
> hp?4,5056579,5056931#msg-5056931
>
>  

How exactly would TSA agent's prevented what happened in La Plata?

...by riding the train. Not being at stations. This is REALLY simple. Agitators are simply arrested, confined into special compartments on the train and arrested at the next stop. DUH!!  ×   

gandydancer4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...by riding the train. Not being at stations.
> This is REALLY simple. Agitators are simply
> arrested, confined into special compartments on
> the train and arrested at the next stop.
> DUH!!  ×   

Just a thought but, shouldn't THAT responsibility fall to the U.S. Marshals? Remember that TSA folks are NOT armed. Maybe Amtrak should have their own Amtrak Police riding these problematic trains.

gandydancer4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...by riding the train. Not being at stations.
> This is REALLY simple. Agitators are simply
> arrested, 

agitators?

The vast majority of TSA "officers" are not LEOs and do not have arrest authority. They carry no weapons -- not even pepper spray -- and they do not carry handcuffs. They do not have training in handling arrestees. They simply call whatever LEO is available when necessary. APD is available at major stations but not isolated rural stations. Even host RR police (who, in general, do have arrest authority) are usually unavailable in those locations. The local PD or sheriff is the inevitable answer.

Yes, you could put TSA Federal Air Marshals or even U.S. Marshals on trains. They have training, equipment, and arrest authority. But there aren't enough to go around. 

Agitating is not a crime. Police haven't been allowed to make arrests on charges like agitating or "on suspicion" since the 1960s. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/20 15:22 by ctillnc.

Amtrak and Railroad Police have arrest powers. TSA Agents and Security Guards do not.
So who do you think can do the better job?

For Amtrak trains that serve a community twice a day - one train from one direction and another train from another a direction - would it be too much to ask local police to be "around" the train station for what's likely a brief stop. Many communities are lucky to have train service. Is it that much to ask for the police to be "around" when this highlight of the day or evening may occur for many communities? Station caretakers and station agents should also have some sort of basic training to call the police if they are wary of a certain situation, or if something were to happen. Amtrak is lacking in station agents across the system, let alone trying to get T.S.A. security at all railroad stations.                                                                                                            

Boy you gotta love when people should assume this and get shot down in a heartbeat, I've seen local cops handle situations when no. 3 comes into Flag and that only happens when they call it in, other than that it's routine which happens most of the time, not crap like what happened in La Plata!

Posted from Android



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/20 17:04 by ProAmtrak.

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For Amtrak trains that serve a community twice a
> day - one train from one direction and another
> train from another a direction - would it be too
> much to ask local police to be "around" the train
> station for what's likely a brief stop. Many
> communities are lucky to have train service. Is it
> that much to ask for the police to be "around"
> when this highlight of the day or evening may
> occur for many communities?

there is NO guarantee that local law enforcement will be available during station stops.  they could be on other emergency calls..........

> Station caretakers and
> station agents should also have some sort of basic
> training to call the police if they are wary of a
> certain situation, or if something were to happen.
> Amtrak is lacking in station agents across the
> system, let alone trying to get T.S.A. security at
> all railroad stations.                 
>                                  
                             
the current "de-fund police" movements that SOME politicians agree with could DECREASE current law enforcement staffing levels and INCREASE response times for everybody, including amtrak...........

66

None of us here I assume are policy makers. I'm writing to my Congressmen and Governor requesting this for the stations Amtrak serves. 

Considering all the billions being spent it's the least that could be done to help improve safety at every down line station.  The policymakers can work out the details.
 

Molino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> None of us here I assume are policy makers. I'm
> writing to my Congressmen and Governor requesting
> this for the stations Amtrak serves. 

Good luck with THAT.

> Considering all the billions being spent it's the
> least that could be done to help improve safety at
> every down line station.  The policymakers can
> work out the details.

What happens when the Police are "de-funded"? Who will protect you then? Do you have a concealed carry permit? If not, you might want to get prepared.

This may or may not be OT, but.......the origins of that "defund the police" movement had nothing to do with eliminating cops (a stunningly bad idea, by the way), but was aimed at the military "toys" the the Feds offer to law enforcement authorities........tanks, armored cars....the heavy duty stuff that police now deploy more as a threat than an answer to problems with demonstrations.

Those diverted funds were intended to go to community service efforts......especialy those who have mental health issues and are often shot to death needlessly.......as a retired Psych/crisis nurse, I'm especially attuned to these all too frequent incidents.

Hope this helps.

AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

agentatascadero Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This may or may not be OT, but.......the origins
> of that "defund the police" movement had nothing
> to do with eliminating cops (a stunningly bad
> idea, by the way), but was aimed at the military
> "toys" the the Feds offer to law enforcement
> authorities........tanks, armored cars....the
> heavy duty stuff that police now deploy more as a
> threat than an answer to problems with
> demonstrations.
>
> Those diverted funds were intended to go to
> community service efforts......especialy those who
> have mental health issues and are often shot to
> death needlessly.......as a retired Psych/crisis
> nurse, I'm especially attuned to these all too
> frequent incidents.
>
> Hope this helps.

You may be right but, how do you explain that ridiculous proposal put forward by the Minneapolis City Council to "de-fund the police dept." and have private security firms, paid for by the taxpayers, to "protect" everybody?