Passenger Trains > Question on AMT National Limited

In scanning my slides I came across this shot seen here. My notes on the slide mount say it's the National Limited EB on Feb 7 1979. In looking at the consist, I got to wondering whether or not it might be the Pennsylvanian. From some old AMT TT's I have The Pennsylvanian didn't begin service until April 1980. And the National stopped in October 1979.  So could this short train seen here at Harrisburg Pa on a snowy Feb day be the National with the very short train, or was it actually the Pennsylvanian?  Thanks for any ideas. Ben

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Yes, it looks like the "National Limited".  After the steam heated equippment was withdrawn, the National Limited operated with an HEP consist that included a Baggage Car, a 10-6 sleeper, Amcafe Car, and 2 or 3 coaches, typically.  You can see a 10-6 sleeper in your photograph.  I don't recall the Pennsylvanian being assigned a 10-6 sleeping car.

Nice view.  Thank you.. 

The current issue of PTJ has an article in which the author describes riding several Amtrak trains including the National Limited during September 1979. The article includes consists for these trains and you'll see that the train in the photograph definitely looks like the National Limited.

WP17

Sure looks like a sleeper in the consist; it can't be the Pennsylvanian.

Quite a bit downsized from what it was in 1974.   Did ridership drop off that much, or is this the "winter" train, or was ridership always low, and they just "right sized" it.

I rode it in 74 i think.  seemed like a long train.  Hardly a speed demon, but I was a kid and it was fun.  I remember stopping near Avon yard (i think) in the middle of the night, and somewhere (indy area I think) hearing over the radio "10mph across the diamonds"  and we just POUNDED thru the diamonds at 10 mph.  I think in was PC incredible state of disrepair....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/20 23:27 by pdt.

I rode the National Limited between Effingham IL and Kansas City MO in the late 1970s and it looked pretty much like that but my train's F40PH was producing HEP only and the lead unit, providing all the traction, was an E8!  Also there was a Heritage HEP lounge car in the consist, a round end car with a vestibule to operate mid-train.

Natioanl Ltd required 4 train sets. So does it replacements that cover far less territory:

• Pennsylvanian - 2
• Hoosier State - 1 (until they killed it) to keep Indianapolis and Beech Grove on the map. 
• Missouri frequency -1

Goes to show an efficiency of LD trains. 

No DINER? How could it be that in 1979 Amtrak ran a long distance train without a diner?! 
 

Certainly looks like the late model National. And yes (just like the Inter-American at about the same time) an Amdinette was the food service. I took both trains at that time. Coach on the National, roomette on the Inter-American. Can't remember what I ate or could have eaten. I was just happy to be riding a train.

Excellent photo. Thanks for sharing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/20 07:37 by King_Coal.

dispr Wrote:
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> No DINER? How could it be that in 1979 Amtrak ran
> a long distance train without a diner?! 
 
Other than the initial 25 10-6 HEP conversion, there was no HEP/Heritage fleet in 1979. Many steam-heat cars were permanently damaged during the 77-78 winter, so trains like the National Ltd, Montrealer, Cof NO, and Eagle were Amfleeted. The Pioneer was from the get-go in 1977. It never saw steam heat or an E-8. 

Nonetheless, there was silverware, heavy oval plastic plates (I have a dozen of them, and they see my dishwasher every week in 2020, holds up as well as my Corningware), table cloths, and waiter service. I enjoyed that on both the Montrealer and the Pioneer. 
There was a can-do mentality and commitment to service then. Now it is all victim-mentality.

dispr Wrote:
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> No DINER? How could it be that in 1979 Amtrak ran
> a long distance train without a diner?! 
>  

In that time several Amtrak trains with sleepers did not have a diner and "made do" with Amfleet Dinettes or Heritage lounges instead. The Cardinal, when it ran, was one. City of New Orleans was an even worse example, a big, popular train with only a Dinette and its crummysnackbar. The queue routinely ran all the way through the adjacent Coach. Somebody must have told Richard Anderson about how it was done.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/20 09:09 by GenePoon.

The 10/6 sleeper is the giveaway.

Art House

If it is Feb.7, 1979 then it is certainly the National Limited.  The poor old, much maligned National lasted until October of 1979.  My first wife and our three children rode it, in coach, all the way from Kansas City to Washington DC in 1974.  Arrived five hours late but it was an interesting trip.  I also used it for many shorter trips during its life, one of my most missed Amtrak trains.

Amazingly, there is at least one OBS employee still working at Amtrak who worked this train at the very beginning of his career.  Saw him today and he was as cheerful as ever.  His stories about the National and other long gone trains are priceless. 

Latebeans Wrote:
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> If it is Feb.7, 1979 then it is certainly the
> National Limited.  The poor old, much maligned
> National lasted until October of 1979.  My first
> wife and our three children rode it, in coach, all
> the way from Kansas City to Washington DC in
> 1974.  Arrived five hours late but it was an
> interesting trip.  I also used it for many
> shorter trips during its life, one of my most
> missed Amtrak trains.

When it was equipped with Amfleet & F40s and Conrail made some improvements to the track across Indiana and Ohio, the National Limited became a pretty decent new train.  Amtrak's 1979 calendar Gil Reid painted even featured, ironically, the National Limited descending the Horseshoe Curve.

As I recall, during the Pennsylvanian's first year or two, it was just a 2 - 3 car train.