Passenger Trains > Amtrak Could Return to Phoenix (Pipe Dream if you Ask Me)

My oldest daughter lives in the Phoenix area sent me this link to a "true pipe dream" in greater Phoenix.  And, get this, it may only take 15 years and $25 Billion to complete!
Can not get the link to work so you need to go to www.azfamily.com and in search box type in "Amtrak to Return to Phoenix"

Marty Harrison
Knob Noster, MO



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/20 14:53 by livesteamer.

https://www.azfamily.com/news/amtrak-could-be-returning-to-phoenix/article_85c83048-13cf-11eb-ab99-e3f1ecf25ce5.html

66

There needs to be some sort of Amtrak corridor service operation from Los Angeles to Phoenix. Those cities are 373 miles a part from each other and lots of large towns in between in California. The distance from Downtown LA to Phoenix is the same as Manhattan, NYC to Richmond, VA. Obviously there are multiple trains that run between NYP and Richmond and eventually, there will be almost an hourly schedule between those cities. Back to Phoenix-LA-I take it that the proposed route would follow a lot of the existing Sunset Limited route. There is already a proposal to have a corridor train running from LA to Indio and it looks like this train would follow the BNSF San Bernardino Sub stopping in Fullerton and Riverside. At Colton, the train would take UP's Yuma Sub. I believe that stops like Palm Springs and Indio are being proposed. It looks like a few miles after you clear Indio, the existing UP Yuma Sub passes through the middle of nowhere for several miles and the next large town is Yuma. It looks like east of Yuma, it is mostly desert until you get to Buckeye. Even though there aren't really any large towns between Yuma and Buckeye, hopefully a few infill stations would be added even if they are park n ride lots.

The suggested dollar number must recognize that UPee will fight this every step of the way, and demand the moon.  In actuality, rebuilding the track west of Phoenix would be less than $500M.  But UPee would demand all sorts of other "improvements" such as double track west of Yuma to Indio (probablly a good idea for freight or passenger).  

That's always the barrier, UP always has excuses, go figure why The Sunset still runs 3 days a week!

Posted from Android

Someone has to care about building a reliable conventional transportation system.   Stand up to the UP,  and put in a basic 80 MPH railroad, without it having to be "the latest and greatest", and a "jobs program", more than a railroad.   

No one is ever interested in just putting together reliable basic transportation.   I drove LA to PHX and back once. Never again.   And there are intermediate cities that could use service.  Im not going to drive from riverside or san berdoo to LA to get on an airplane to PHX, if I can take a train there directly.  Airports have become hoge pools of insanity, vehicular traffic and people.  The Worst.

pdt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone has to care about building a reliable
> conventional transportation system.   Stand up
> to the UP,  and put in a basic 80 MPH railroad,
> without it having to be "the latest and greatest",
> and a "jobs program", more than a railroad.   

not exactly on MOST peoples minds in this day and age so, MOST don't care.........

> No one is ever interested in just putting together
> reliable basic transportation.   I drove LA to
> PHX and back once. Never again.   And there are
> intermediate cities that could use service.  Im
> not going to drive from riverside or san berdoo to
> LA to get on an airplane to PHX, if I can take a
> train there directly. 

fly out of ontario instead.........

> Airports have become hoge
> pools of insanity, vehicular traffic and people. 
> The Worst.

i have driven to the airport in vegas 3x in the last 3 yrs.  no problems.........

66

goneon66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pdt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Someone has to care about building a reliable
> > conventional transportation system.   Stand
> up
> > to the UP,  and put in a basic 80 MPH
> railroad,
> > without it having to be "the latest and
> greatest",
> > and a "jobs program", more than a
> railroad.   
>
> not exactly on MOST peoples minds in this day and
> age so, MOST don't care.........
>
> > No one is ever interested in just putting
> together
> > reliable basic transportation.   I drove LA
> to
> > PHX and back once. Never again.   And there
> are
> > intermediate cities that could use service. 
> Im
> > not going to drive from riverside or san berdoo
> to
> > LA to get on an airplane to PHX, if I can take
> a
> > train there directly. 
>
> fly out of ontario instead.........
>
> > Airports have become hoge
> > pools of insanity, vehicular traffic and
> people. 
> > The Worst.
>
> i have driven to the airport in vegas 3x in the
> last 3 yrs.  no problems.........
>
> 66

U and I are different,  I think we've established that.  
  I dont like cars or driving.   Its just a long boring waste of my time.   Spent half my life in the airline biz, too.   As for ONT, its been a ghost town for years.  IDK if there are even flight from there to PHX anymore.   Not that I care.   Just wish there was better train service, and less of my tax money wasted on HSR to nowhere, and roads.  I'm glad LA has finally stopped building new freeways.  Just wish Calltrans would stop wasting money featherbedding to make more jobs in the road business.   I've driven to 0 airports in the last 3 years, no problem.

do we agree that hsr money would have been better spent on improving/expanding california's current passenger service (i.e. the coast route, san joaquin's, surfliners, etc.)?

that sure would have BENEFITED more people...........

66 

Passfanatic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There needs to be some sort of Amtrak corridor
> service operation from Los Angeles to Phoenix.
> Those cities are 373 miles a part from each other
> and lots of large towns in between in California.
> The distance from Downtown LA to Phoenix is the
> same as Manhattan, NYC to Richmond, VA. Obviously
> there are multiple trains that run between NYP and
> Richmond and eventually, there will be almost an
> hourly schedule between those cities. Back to
> Phoenix-LA-I take it that the proposed route would
> follow a lot of the existing Sunset Limited route.
> There is already a proposal to have a corridor
> train running from LA to Indio and it looks like
> this train would follow the BNSF San Bernardino
> Sub stopping in Fullerton and Riverside. At
> Colton, the train would take UP's Yuma Sub. I
> believe that stops like Palm Springs and Indio are
> being proposed. It looks like a few miles after
> you clear Indio, the existing UP Yuma Sub passes
> through the middle of nowhere for several miles
> and the next large town is Yuma. It looks like
> east of Yuma, it is mostly desert until you get to
> Buckeye. Even though there aren't really any large
> towns between Yuma and Buckeye, hopefully a few
> infill stations would be added even if they are
> park n ride lots.

The NYP-RVR corridor is quite different if you ask me. Yes, you do have two large metropolitan cities and a half end but that’s as far as it goes. Leaving New York, you have Newark, Metropark, Trenton, Philadelphia, Wilmington, Baltimore, DC, and Alexandria before you get to Richmond.

After you leave LAUPT, you have the eastern suburbs, Riverside or San Bernardino, Palm Springs, and that’s it.

With frequent flights (mostly hourly) from no less than five airports in the metropolitan LA area that take 45” to reach Phoenix it’s not going to happen. There are much more likely corridor options.

Posted from iPhone

another_view Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With frequent flights (mostly hourly) from no less
> than five airports in the metropolitan LA area
> that take 45” to reach Phoenix it’s not going
> to happen. There are much more likely corridor
> options.

So you're saying Ray Lang, Amtrak's senior director of State and Local Government Affairs wasted his and everyone else's time.

Sure it would be nice to have train between these two places but like several others have pointed out in that 373 miles there's a whole lot of nothing. You could put that 373 miles between Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton, Cincinnati and Louisville KY and there, there you got something. Milwaukee, Chicago and St Louis, yeah, you've got something. You put that 373 plus another thirty or so between Minneapolis and Chicago, and there, you've got something. 373 between LA and Phoenix you got next to nothing. The important question is how often do any of these people who say this would solve all their problems and even you and my problems, how often would they actually use this service? Everybody always gives the argument that Amtrak is all about serving the intermediate points when you say that taking an airplane would be easier but here now because it's a shiny train, now the train that is end to end or end to roughly 60 miles from the end is the better way to go? To me making this lane an HSR is a waste but what for I know? Maybe paying 70 percent of my income in taxes for stupid crap like this will help me lose weight or something? Hopefully we never find out...

Jim

goneon66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> do we agree that hsr money would have been better
> spent on improving/expanding california's current
> passenger service (i.e. the coast route, san
> joaquin's, surfliners, etc.)?
>
> that sure would have BENEFITED more
> people...........
>
> 66

YES!  And in caps because I am shouting it. To paraphrase Dr. Suess, Oh, the places we could have gone if HSR funds were invested in new desstinations and additional trains on existing routes.  

I live in a suburb in southeastern PHX, Gilbert. And for the past 20+ years I have also made, almost every week, quick one/two day trips to LA and San Diego for business. Using Southwest Airlines, SWA, who provided hourly service to San Diego and Orange County/other LA area airports, before the virus. While I have occasionally thought it would be cool to have a Pacific Surfliner type service between PHX and SoCal, the fact is, SWA is reasonably priced and very convenient. And, as it has been pointed out, there is next to nothing between PHX and SoCal, expect Yuma. The drive between the two cities sucks, boring drive, fighting semis the whole way. Yes, I know that if I don't like semis, I should stop buying stuff. When we first moved here in 1994, I would stop my kids' soccer practice for a water break when the Sunset Limited sometimes passed our practice fields in the early evening. Fun fact, I now watch my granddaughters' games at the same field, but no longer do we see Amtrak, just the UP locals. As the original poster stated, a pipe dream. My son also sent me the link to the article. I remarked I will probably not live to see it in 2035. Plus, the old PHX Union Station is now used by Sprint and is rumored to be haunted.

Thanks to the OP and all the other takes, 

Randy in SE PHX

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> another_view Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > With frequent flights (mostly hourly) from no
> less
> > than five airports in the metropolitan LA area
> > that take 45” to reach Phoenix it’s not
> going
> > to happen. There are much more likely corridor
> > options.
>
> So you're saying Ray Lang, Amtrak's senior
> director of State and Local Government Affairs
> wasted his and everyone else's time.

Take a closer look, he didn't say anything except that they would examine the corridor, never going to happen.

randyr Wrote:
> Plus, the old PHX Union Station is now used by Sprint and is rumored to be haunted.

Sprint just became T-Mobile, but in any case, is that occupancy a legacy from when they were Southern Pacific Railroad Internal Networking Telephony ?

NEED?   Is there a real "need"?

Or merely "a wish list"
A "nice to have" item

Who pays the mssdive CAPEX bucks to build it.  Pay off the debt with interest?

CAPITAL isn't free.

Show us the money.
Without financing, a line on a map is a concept.  Not yet a plan.

Jim Blaze
Sicklerville, NJ

another_view Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Take a closer look, he didn't say anything except
> that they would examine the corridor, never going
> to happen.

That means you believe Ray Lang's wasted his time, regardless of what he said. 

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> another_view Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Take a closer look, he didn't say anything
> except
> > that they would examine the corridor, never
> going
> > to happen.
>
> That means you believe Ray Lang's wasted his time,
> regardless of what he said. 

That and his viewpoint that everything needs to be profitabe no matter how bad you have to downgrade the service to get that goa!

If you read the article, note that it says the Amtrak could return to Phoenix by the year 2035.

So if it does come back, it will probably be with all new equipment.