Passenger Trains > COVID Relief Bill, AMTRAK, and Transit

The 2nd COVID 19 Relief Bill has been signed.  $1 Billion is for Amtrak and $16 Billion is for transit.
The bill allows money to be spent on capital improvements and infrastructure. 
I have 5 questions:

1. Will Amtrak restore long distance service (from tri-weekly service) ?
2. Will Amtrak add any long distance (Gulf Coast Service/others)?
3. Will States augment their State Sponsored service? Perhaps buy equipment?
4. Will California apply for funding to continue work on HSR?
5  Will all the money disappear down a "black hole".

Let's keep the discussion civil.  

The purpose was to help make them get whole from revenue loss, not pacify wishlist items. 

We're all going to be guessing -- but here are my predictions:

1.  Restore daily service?  They will--but it depends on the vaccine making it save to travel again.

2.  Add new LD service?  No - for one reason--the resistance of the freight railroads.

3.  Will States add service?  Definitely--especially Va., and Chi-Milwaukee

5.  Calif. HSP?  Have no idea.  Too much politics involved to hazard a guess.

6.  Disappear down black hole - I don't think so.  A lot will be spent on the NEC, bridges and stations.

scott9915 Wrote:
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> The 2nd COVID 19 Relief Bill has been signed.  $1
> Billion is for Amtrak and $16 Billion is for
> transit.
> The bill allows money to be spent on capital
> improvements and infrastructure. 
> I have 5 questions:
>
> 1. Will Amtrak restore long distance service (from
> tri-weekly service) ?
> 2. Will Amtrak add any long distance (Gulf Coast
> Service/others)?
> 3. Will States augment their State Sponsored
> service? Perhaps buy equipment?
> 4. Will California apply for funding to continue
> work on HSR?
> 5  Will all the money disappear down a "black
> hole".
>
> Let's keep the discussion civil. 

Where did you get the $16 billion number for transit?  My sources, including an e-mail newsletter from my congressman, state the amount is $14 billion.

There is also $2 billion for intercity motorcoach companies and $15 billion earmarked for aviation employees.

Much (most?) of this funding will go towards offsetting revenue losses due to the pandemic and thus used for maintaining existing service.  Some will see this as money which will "disappear down a black hole."  Others will view this aid as necessary to maintaining local and intercity transportation services.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/21 14:53 by RuleG.

rgzfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We never see any pictures of Covid Relief Bill.    Who exactly is he? Where is he from?

He lives in the basement of a large sausage manufacturing plant.

Brian

I stand corrected- the amount for transit is $14 Billion.

This story from NPR has a summary and a link to the bill:

Details Of Coronavirus Relief Bill: Direct Payments, Unemployment : NPR

The section on the transit starts around page 1600 (but read it for yourselves).

It's New Year's Day. Indoor dining is cancelled in states like NY State and PA. The Mid-Atlantic and Northeast governors have been telling everyone to STAY HOME, don't have more than two or three households gathering at one time, and don't let that limit go over 10 - blah blah blah. Yes, COVID is real. I am not saying it's not. I believe everyone has a right to lead their life as they wish, and to also be safe in the process when interacting with others. Some people do have to travel. 

So RIGHT NOW, on the Northeast Corridor, at 6:00 pm Jan 1, 2021 here's what's operating in the NEC:

17 TRAINS TOTAL
5 Acela Expresses 
2 Long Distance Trains (on a Tri-Weekly Schedule - I get it)
10 Regionals

How much is that costing TODAY, compared to a tri-weekly National Network? Kansas City doesn't see a train till tomorrow, at best.  

There are 5 Acela Express trains operating today? REALLY???? Who is paying that premium fare and the HIGH infrastructure costs for that train to operate. And it's got First Class operating! 

Minus the Crescent and Silver Star/Meteor there are 15 trains travelling the length of the NEC at 6 pm on Jan 1, 2021. I am sure that is down from last year Jan 1, 2020, but in COMPARISON to the National Network trains that have gotten decimated to tri-weekly service? No Kansas City to Chicago train, no Twin Cities to Chicago train, no Denver to Chicago train, no Reno to Oakland train. 

Something should be done to re-balance what trains are operating where, better than what is currently going on, cause the NEC is STILL getting a high level of service, and I am not sure who is (demographic/profile of passenger) riding trains in the NE. If the NEC were to be turned over to the NE States to fund, NO WAY would they be funding trains at today's level. 

People still need jobs and that's also part of the stimulus money. Perhaps now becomes the time to do some refurb projects.......

Maybe I don't see it right, but this is what's sticking out as the headline right now when I look at a map of what trains are operating.......in the light of stimulus money being awarded........

I am advocating a BETTER BALANCE and perhaps a bit of FAIRNESS. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/21 15:26 by jp1822.

There's is elaborate and impossible to meet criteria to restore for daily service. 
Was there any for restoration of any Acela service  ? NO. 

Daily LD service is not a luxury. Acela is. 

 

scott9915 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> 2. Will Amtrak add any long distance (Gulf Coast
> Service/others)?

Gulf Coast Service (Florida Tallahassee line) not likely.  FG&A owns the line now and it does not have PTC.  I doubt they can afford to install it.

RFandPFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> scott9915 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > 2. Will Amtrak add any long distance (Gulf
> Coast
> > Service/others)?
>
> Gulf Coast Service (Florida Tallahassee line) not
> likely.  FG&A owns the line now and it does not
> have PTC.  I doubt they can afford to install it.

Why would they if it is not required for THEIR operation? They aren’t going to gift Amtrak. 

The NEC definately needs to be upgraded. The Gateway project has been needed for a while-double the track capacity underneath the Hudson River, a brand new four track High Line stretch of the NEC to NWK Penn Station from NYP. This will not only benefit Amtrak but enable NJT to run more reliably as well as run more express trains seven days a week at all hours from outlying stations(Bay Head, Trenton, High Bridge, and Dover(straight electric)). Plus every NJT RVL train would be able to run to NYC for a change. The NWK transfer for RVL passengers is tedious as they often have to go downstairs to into the station and then come back upstairs(westbound passengers going from Track 4 & 3 platform to Track 5 and eastbound passengers walking underneath all of the tracks).

East of NYP on the Hellgate Line, it would be nice to have as many stretches that are four tracks to help accomodate MNR to run their East Bronx trains. This would enable Amtrak to be able to overtake MNR trains. The MNR East Bronx Service is very critical because many people living in those sections of the Bronx along the existing Hellgate Line currently have to either take a bus or bus to a subway to get to Midtown Manhattan and that takes too long. Plus those people who are heading to Westchester County and Fairfield County often have to take a bus to get to a MNR station. Not only do people living along the Hellgate Line work in Manhattan. There are plenty who work in New Rochelle and even Stamford. As for other infrastructure along the Hellgate Line, Pelham Bay Drawbridge needs to be replaced-have a bridge that has four tracks rather than the current two.

The Baltimore & Potomac Tunnels need to be replaced as not only are the current tunnels very old. The approach to Baltimore Penn Station from the south is very slow. It would be great to have as much of a four track right of way between Baltimore and DC as much as possible. This will not only enable more Amtrak trains but MARC could run more trains. It would be nice on weekends for MARC to run at least an hourly service on the Penn Line with maybe a few super express trains(making only intermediate stops at BWI and NCR).

scott9915 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The 2nd COVID 19 Relief Bill has been signed.  $1
> Billion is for Amtrak and $16 Billion is for
> transit.
> The bill allows money to be spent on capital
> improvements and infrastructure. 
> I have 5 questions:
>
> 1. Will Amtrak restore long distance service (from
> tri-weekly service) ?
> 2. Will Amtrak add any long distance (Gulf Coast
> Service/others)?
> 3. Will States augment their State Sponsored
> service? Perhaps buy equipment?
> 4. Will California apply for funding to continue
> work on HSR?
> 5  Will all the money disappear down a "black
> hole".
>
> Let's keep the discussion civil.  

Why not read the actual text of the COVID Relief Bill yourself to answer these questions?

There are many links to the full text of the bill on the Internet,   One is:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-stat/graphics/BILLS-116HR133SA-RCP-116-68.pdf

The section of the bill on railroads, including Amtrak and the Northeast Corridor, begins on page 1654 (of 5593).

The Bill is used to help them continue their services, jeez I hope for improved and expanded Amtrak myself, but I hope by March at least (if not sooner) things can start going back to normal!

scott9915 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The 2nd COVID 19 Relief Bill has been signed.  $1
> Billion is for Amtrak and $16 Billion is for
> transit.
> The bill allows money to be spent on capital
> improvements and infrastructure. 
> I have 5 questions:
>
> 1. Will Amtrak restore long distance service (from
> tri-weekly service) ?
> 2. Will Amtrak add any long distance (Gulf Coast
> Service/others)?
> 3. Will States augment their State Sponsored
> service? Perhaps buy equipment?
> 4. Will California apply for funding to continue
> work on HSR?
> 5  Will all the money disappear down a "black
> hole".
>
> Let's keep the discussion civil.  

From my understanding of what is going on Flynn has told the unions that he has zero plans on restoring service because amtrak did not recive the 5 billion he asked for.  What is intresting is if i understand the bill they need to restore service to march 2018 levels or they will not recive the 1 billion.

I have 5 questions: 

1. Will Amtrak restore long distance service (from tri-weekly service) ? 
2. Will Amtrak add any long distance (Gulf Coast Service/others)? 
3. Will States augment their State Sponsored service? Perhaps buy equipment? 
4. Will California apply for funding to continue work on HSR? 
5  Will all the money disappear down a "black hole

I have 5 simple,answers :

1. No, at least not with money from this bill anyway
2. No way
3. No, most states that have state sponsored service are already bankrupt.
4. No, future CAHSR work is dead
5.  Most certainly

rgzfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We never see any pictures of Covid Relief Bill.
> Who exactly is he? Where is he from?

You can attempt to contact Dr. Lecter, who will probably fill you in on details about this "Wild" Bill, that lives in his basement.

ProAmtrak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Bill is used to help them continue their
> services, jeez I hope for improved and expanded
> Amtrak myself, but I hope by March at least (if
> not sooner) things can start going back to normal!

I'd assume, that they would use the funds to shore up retirement and medical benefits for the line employees first.

"but I hope by March at least (if
 not sooner) things can start going back to normal."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think a prognosticative statement like that is nothing more than optimism on steroids.  The post holiday spikes that are yet to materialize will keep pushing the 'return to normal date' out by months.  Some talking heads are now promoting Q3 of 2021, vaccine roll outs notwithstanding, as a target date where we might begin to see more light at the end of the tunnel.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201227/several-countries-detec-new-covid-19-mutation

66

All I find relating specifically to long distance trains:

At page 1664, Section 155:

SEC. 155. It is the sense of Congress that long-distance  passenger rail  routes provide much-needed transportation access for 4,700,000 riders in  325 communities in 40 States and are particularly important in rural areas; and long-distance passenger rail routes and services should be sustained to ensure connectivity throughout the National Network (as  defined  in  section 24102 of title 49, United States Code).

Earlier, pp1659,1660, in the section on PTC, Congress provided:

That at least $50,000,000  of  the  amount  provided  under  this  heading shall be available for the development, installation and operation  of  railroad  safety  technology,  including  the  implementation of a positive train control system, on State supported  routes  as  defined  under  section  24102(13)  of  title  2249,  United  States  Code,  on  which  positive  train  control systems are not required  by  law  or  regulation:  Provided further,  That  none  of  the  funds  provided  under  this  heading  shall  be  used  by  Amtrak to give notice under sub-section (a) or (b) of  section  24706  of  title  49,  United States  Code,  with  respect  to long-distance  routes  (as  defined in section  24102 of title  49,  United  States  Code) on which Amtrak is the sole operator on  a  host  railroad’s line and a positive train control system is not required by law  or regulation, or, except in an emergency or during maintenance or   construction outages impacting such routes, to otherwise  discontinue,  reduce the frequency of, suspend, or substantially alter the route of rail  service on any portion of such route operated  in  fiscal  year  2018, including implementation of service permitted by section 1224305(a)(3)(A)  of title 49, United  States  Code, in lieu of rail service.

About what  all that means, I leave t others.