Passenger Trains > Daily long haul service

According to a friend of mine. They recieved and email from their local chairman stating "daily service will DEFINITELY resume on June 15". Apparently furloughed engineers will be recalled "around May 1". IF funding comes through said engineers "will be recalled to service as early as March"!
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/21 21:22 by YoungOldHead.

When they are recalled, do they earn wages at that point in time, or not until actually work of the added trains after Jun 15 ?

Posted from Android

If it's like the airlines they will send out what effectively is a recall effective date a few weeks in advance. It's like giving you a 2-4 week notice of returning to work. You get paid when your "back on property".  The 2-4 week notice allows you to give notice to another job you may have been working at, arrange child care, etc. 

That being said the GOP the last few days is getting blatant in anti stimulus rhetoric. So let's hope the full money for Amtrak stays in the final bill.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/21 07:16 by Flyer92122.

Stimulus bill can probably survive a 51-50 Senate if they tone down the min wage issue. 
I don't usually buy Trains magazine, but we should read the Jan 2021 issue. It has a lengthy article on the mid-1990's experience of long haul frequency reduction. It basically failed, and they had to work hard to get business back. Thru cars to LA helped save the Eagle. Current "management" thinks they tri-weekly saves $150 million of the $1.5 billion stimulus they are supposed to get. We all know they are clueless on how to win back business, or even want business back, on the LD trains. I didn't thoroughly read the article yet.  
 

It's too bad Amtrak can't find more of a business or adopt operations that have "through cars" aligned with them. Think back to the long distance trains that used to have:

- a Dallas to Houston "section"
- a split of the Crescent that brought a "section" to Mobile
- a split of the Florida trains that made them more efficient overall (but somehow overly labor intensive at Jacksonville)
- a split/connection from St. Louis to Carbondale
- a split at Indianapolis (although that needed additional help and improvement) 
- a split at Denver/Salt Lake City to get to the Pacific Northwest or LA. 

This all went OUT and largely discontinued when frequencies were reduced. 

The Claytor years seemed thrived on various trains that combined and split - as what passenger RR's used to do!
 

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stimulus bill can probably survive a 51-50 Senate
> if they tone down the min wage issue. 
> I don't usually buy Trains magazine, but we should
> read the Jan 2021 issue. It has a lengthy article
> on the mid-1990's experience of long haul
> frequency reduction. It basically failed, and they
> had to work hard to get business back. Thru cars
> to LA helped save the Eagle. Current "management"
> thinks they tri-weekly saves $150 million of the
> $1.5 billion stimulus they are supposed to get. We
> all know they are clueless on how to win back
> business, or even want business back, on the LD
> trains. I didn't thoroughly read the article
> yet.  
>  

::sigh:: We've been over this before. Remind me what pandemic reduced travel by 80-90% during the mid-1990s tri-weekly experiment that would make this a valid comparison?

I'm not a fan of tri-weekly service, but this argument against it doesn't hold water.

Yes the argument does hold because some concepts do not change.

Pandemic reduced ridership 60% on LD, not 80 to 90% like the NEC. With social distancing, revenue capacity was reduced 82%, which is far more revenue loss than 60%. It was actually worse since remaining consists were also reduced.


Passengers do not adjust to days of operation and revenue is proportionately reduced.

Fixed costs of a route do not change.

Some operating expenses increase since one night at a hotel for the crew becomes two or three nights.

Variable costs are reduced by a lesser percentage than variable revenue. Lake Shore and Capitol Ltd require 67% of the train sets and crews to retain 43% of the operation and revenues.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/21 11:29 by joemvcnj.

pennengineer Wrote in part:
-------------------------------------------------------

> ::sigh:: We've been over this before. Remind me
> what pandemic reduced travel by 80-90% during the
> mid-1990s tri-weekly experiment that would make
> this a valid comparison?
>
SIgh as well: NEC and regional travel may be down 80-90% but the long distance trains are holding up much better. Ridership is definitely down (I can't find the exact figures but it's more like 50-60%) but much of that is due to Amtrak reducing availability in the two or three coaches they run on each train  -- seats and bedrooms are often soid out on many days even when they were running daily.

WP17

Yes.  I just looked at Boston to Chicago in August.  A Viewliner roomette is $685.  Bedroom is over $1300.  So there are probably just a couple roomettes left and I would guess one bedroom.  I will try breaking the trip at Albany.  Biz class to Albany, then a NY sleeper at a lower fare.

I have no idea who is paying that with the food service being what it is.  I decided to make the trip by plane.  I am not paying those ridiculous fares.


WP17 Wrote:

> SIgh as well: NEC and regional travel may be down
> 80-90% but the long distance trains are holding up
> much better. Ridership is definitely down (I can't
> find the exact figures but it's more like 50-60%)
> but much of that is due to Amtrak reducing
> availability in the two or three coaches they run
> on each train  -- seats and bedrooms are often
> soid out on many days even when they were running
> daily.
>
> WP17

WP17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pennengineer Wrote in part:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > ::sigh:: We've been over this before. Remind me
> > what pandemic reduced travel by 80-90% during
> the
> > mid-1990s tri-weekly experiment that would make
> > this a valid comparison?
> >
> SIgh as well: NEC and regional travel may be down
> 80-90% but the long distance trains are holding up
> much better. Ridership is definitely down (I can't
> find the exact figures but it's more like 50-60%)
> but much of that is due to Amtrak reducing
> availability in the two or three coaches they run
> on each train  -- seats and bedrooms are often
> soid out on many days even when they were running
> daily.
>
> WP17

I wish that I could understand where sleepers are “sold out”, last week on the Sunset, a total of seven passengers in the sleeper from LAX to NOL, that is not sold out and it is similar to that on virtually every departure. Has anyone personally observed sold out sleepers? Every room, every bed sold?

Posted from iPhone

Autotrain has periodically had sold out sleepers

Posted from iPhone

You can browse through the TO and Facebook posts during the holidays of people having trouble finding such space on many of the trains, as opposed to middle of February, through Texas, during snow storms, when much of the state was blacked out, and without water. 

We look at monthly and quarterly results, not one shots, to draw conclusions. 

          Things would have to improve 500% for us to give one rats rear end about riding Amtrak again. And NO, I will not ride it to see if its better. Must see proof first.

dcfbalcoS1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>           Things would have to improve 500%
> for us to give one rats rear end about riding
> Amtrak again. And NO, I will not ride it to see if
> its better. Must see proof first.

Please do not say "us."  You don't speak for me.  I don't know what percentage restoration of daily service (100%?) constitutes, but that improvement will make riding long-distance passenger trains more feasible.  With that improvement and more people getting vaccinations, I'm ready to ride long-distance trains again, after not riding any trains in 2020.

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's too bad Amtrak can't find more of a business
> or adopt operations that have "through cars"
> aligned with them. Think back to the long distance
> trains that used to have:
>
> - a Dallas to Houston "section"
> - a split of the Crescent that brought a "section"
> to Mobile
> - a split of the Florida trains that made them
> more efficient overall (but somehow overly labor
> intensive at Jacksonville)
> - a split/connection from St. Louis to Carbondale
> - a split at Indianapolis (although that needed
> additional help and improvement) 
> - a split at Denver/Salt Lake City to get to the
> Pacific Northwest or LA. 
>
> This all went OUT and largely discontinued when
> frequencies were reduced. 
>
> The Claytor years seemed thrived on various trains
> that combined and split - as what passenger RR's
> used to do!
>  
I believe the Florida train's problem at Jacksonville, FL was that there was a mechanical crew base there. Not only were there electricians, but plumbers, and laborers as well. The laborers mostly watered the trains, 16 cars that required watering, no small feat! When Amtrak stopped running the combined trains, the mechanical dept. was cut back to a skeleton crew, but they were still there for watering and any issues that occurred en route. the last of the mechanical dept. was eliminated in the early 2000's. My wife and I were on train 97 and it happened to be the first train that the on board crew had to water their own cars. As it happens, some attendants water their cars, some don't, but it always was done when the mechanical people were there. 

RuleG Wrote:

>  I don't know what percentage restoration of
> daily service (100%?) constitutes, but that
> improvement will make riding long-distance
> passenger trains more feasible. 

It means daily service to whatever route had it until July 1, 2020.
That does not include the Cardinal and Sunset, which have been tri-weekly for decades. 

another_view Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WP17 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > pennengineer Wrote in part:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > ::sigh:: We've been over this before. Remind
> me
> > > what pandemic reduced travel by 80-90% during
> > the
> > > mid-1990s tri-weekly experiment that would
> make
> > > this a valid comparison?
> > >
> > SIgh as well: NEC and regional travel may be
> down
> > 80-90% but the long distance trains are holding
> up
> > much better. Ridership is definitely down (I
> can't
> > find the exact figures but it's more like
> 50-60%)
> > but much of that is due to Amtrak reducing
> > availability in the two or three coaches they
> run
> > on each train  -- seats and bedrooms are often
> > soid out on many days even when they were
> running
> > daily.
> >
> > WP17
>
> I wish that I could understand where sleepers are
> “sold out”, last week on the Sunset, a total
> of seven passengers in the sleeper from LAX to
> NOL, that is not sold out and it is similar to
> that on virtually every departure. Has anyone
> personally observed sold out sleepers? Every room,
> every bed sold?
>
> Posted from iPhone

Boy View you need to really wake up, saying that about the sleepers on the Sunset tells you you didn't really read what WP said!