Passenger Trains > Carl Fowler on Vermont service

https://vermontbiz.com/news/2021/march/07/fowler-its-time-restore-vermonts-amtrak-service

Now being a former resident of this state, the subject Carl raises I find to be very baffling. It would seem that Vermont has had and supported rail passenger service because it was considered as a valuable, inportant and essential service. I would concur with this view. However I cannot fathom the current reasoning which seems to be that it is not at all essential. Does the state think that the entire network should have been shut down since it's own service can so be easily dispensed with? ? If the answer is "yes", then why didn't the state try to eliminate air service as well? But if the answer is "no" then how come the service is no longer essential in VT but other transportation forms are? Further, how be it explained that rail is essential in other states but no longer in VT?  It is also confusing as to how the entire subject has just been ignored, and seemingly by Amtrak as well. 

I'm curious at to what other thoughts others might have on this subject.

Does it really take 6-8 weeks to requalify and train crews?  That seems like a lot of time

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does it really take 6-8 weeks to requalify and
> train crews?  That seems like a lot of time

Ther are some disagreements on that subject, in particular involving a whole 20 miles of new line: December 18 2017.

TAW

On CSX, you take three trips across a segment of track, and you are considered qualified.  6-8 weeks is Amtrak's usual nonsense, because they do not want to operate trains, except in the NEC.  

Finley and his henchmen need to be eliminated from Amtrak.  Late May is very doable to begin train service.  

But all this "restart" of daily service will now see many "roadblocks" such as non-qualified crews; equipment not ready; railroads not ready; need to hire and train new personnel; stations not ready, etc.   Amtrak's litany of bullshit excuses for non-daily service will continue all Summer.  Sadly it is utterly predictable what Amtrak would do, once train service was reduced.  

MEKoch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On CSX, you take three trips across a segment of
> track, and you are considered qualified.  6-8
> weeks is Amtrak's usual nonsense, because they do
> not want to operate trains, except in the
> NEC.  
>
> Finley and his henchmen need to be eliminated from
> Amtrak.  Late May is very doable to begin train
> service.  
>
> But all this "restart" of daily service will now
> see many "roadblocks" such as non-qualified crews;
> equipment not ready; railroads not ready; need to
> hire and train new personnel; stations not ready,
> etc.   Amtrak's litany of bullshit excuses for
> non-daily service will continue all Summer. 
> Sadly it is utterly predictable what Amtrak would
> do, once train service was reduced.  

And yet, most of the posters here condemn Amtrak for the alleged inadequate training that resulted in the Cascades derailment, make up your minds.

Posted from iPhone

another_view Wrote:

> And yet, most of the posters here condemn Amtrak
> for the alleged inadequate training that resulted
> in the Cascades derailment, make up your minds.

Again, Another_view's feeble attempt at controlling social media to defend Amtrak's clowns.

We will condemn Amtrak for their attitude, stupidity and incompetence when deemed necessary. This is not the NARP/RPA Hotline. They now know in early March that July 1 schedules must be restored in June, and to take all qualification and maintenance steps required to make it happen. That is what happens in a real business when staff is handed target dates by those who fund them. 

It is not a question of us "making up our minds", but to enforce discipline on a recalcitrant management and board of political, NEC, and airline hacks who ought to get fired, absent a change in performance and attitude. Evidently they regard the NEC money pit as a federal entitlement, and the rest a hobby that they can ignore whenever they wish.

Amtrak has gotten another $200 million in the Senate bill
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/highlights-changed-senates-covid-relief-bill-76262192



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/21 04:42 by joemvcnj.

I suspect reasonable people will appreciate the difference between

1) A brand new line on which revenue trains have not run, with just one [crew] qualification ride

And

2) A line on which crews have run for decades but requires 6-8 weeks qualification and on which freight runs daily

There is a safe and reasonable point between the extremes. And it doesn't include politicians.

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/21 08:57 by Lackawanna484.

> And yet, most of the posters here condemn Amtrak
> for the alleged inadequate training that resulted
> in the Cascades derailment, make up your minds.
>
> Posted from iPhone

Here, let me give you "another_view".....,
Until you've been ejected onto a active freeway because of the inadequate training, shut the f*** up! 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/21 10:33 by amtrak34east.

what is your opininion of those talgos?

How far away is Vermont from getting trains extended on up the east shore line of Lake Champlain to Burlington? I don't think any of the stations north of Rutland have been readied or put online for train service yet. Too bad that if/when Amtrak service did return to Vermont they couldn't have announced service to Burlington, VT. 

Here's one article on the subject:
https://railvermont.org/2020/12/14/almost-ready-for-amtrak-to-burlington/

People who like a late afternoon NY departure for Rutland, especially on Friday, may not like the schedule. 

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People who like a late afternoon NY departure for
> Rutland, especially on Friday, may not like the
> schedule. 

Ah yes, the American way - no matter where across the country it is, run one tain a day to prove that rail doesn't work.

TAW

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > People who like a late afternoon NY departure
> for
> > Rutland, especially on Friday, may not like the
> > schedule. 
>
> Ah yes, the American way - no matter where across
> the country it is, run one tain a day to prove
> that rail doesn't work.

Literally the same reason that freight shippers at the end of the day not not use carload rail service.

Weird how offering a single slow daily trip departure from the plant, from the gathering yard, and from the regional hump yard leads to a sub-10% market share in freight too, and 90% of industrial and logistics facilities along a rail line not even having a rail spur.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People who like a late afternoon NY departure for
> Rutland, especially on Friday, may not like the
> schedule. 

I agree - that's a horrible schedule for the Ethan Allen Express - in the proposed for its extension to Burlington! The 11:45 am departure from NYP would put it DIRECTLY in line with the present departure time of the Vermonter that meanders all day from NYP to get to Burlington-Essex Junction by 8 pm. The Vermonter and Ethan Allen Express would have nearly a mirror schedule in departure/arrival time at NYP and Burlington (or Burlington-Essex Junction). That makes little sense.

The original plan was to have the Ethan Allen Express depart from NYP as late as possibly in the afternoon (e.g. 3:15 pm) and to allow for an approximate arrival time into Burlington at around 11:15 pm. It was to provide for a true alternative departure time (from the Vermonter) what is projected to be the largest Vermont station along its route - Burlington - different from that of the Vermonter. Drive time between Rutland and Burlington, VT is 1.5 hours. I was allowing 2.5 hours in rail travel time when using the old Ethan Allen Express schedule. Course there's still a timely "reverse move" - similar to what the Vermonter had to deal with at Palmer Jct. - that has to be worked out at Rutland to get the train switched on to the line up to Burlington. Ethan Allen Express will likely have to leave Albany with a P42 at the point and either have an F40 cab on the other end, P42, or the old Metroliner Cab Car so it can reverse directions at Rutland to head up to Burlington. I would think the old Metroliner Cab Car would work out best and be the cheapest, but an F40 cab offers a bit more protection and power to clear snow in winter....