Passenger Trains > Yet another delay for Brightline West

Sorry to say but the least surprising news of the morning
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/brightline-west-bond-effort-pushed-back-to-2022/

WP17

Well, before all the negative nelly's , who cant differentiale between this and  X train and penny stock people.....

Id say this is within the realm of normal, all things considered.  The best investors are going to be the ppl who will benefit the most indirectly...industry in LAS.    Also I think an initial plan that includes getting to San Berdoo (or even LAUS)  would help a lot.  Its just got to be hard to sell a plan to Victorville.  Convenience, and the "half the fun is getting there" thing are the big sells.  Having to drive to victorville 1st, just takes the wind out of it, IMHO.

Also a lot will ride on how Brightline in FL goes, post covid.  Thats the proof of concept..

pdt Wrote:
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(snip)
> Also a lot will ride on how Brightline in FL goes,
> post covid.  Thats the proof of concept.

Absolutely.

pdt Wrote in part:
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> 
> Also a lot will ride on how Brightline in FL goes,
> post covid.  Thats the proof of concept..

Excuse me but isn't Brightline building a completely different system in Florida -- conventional passenger rail though populated areas. How will their success there inlfuence their proposed Las Vegas to Apple ValleyHSR line?

WP17 Wrote:
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> pdt Wrote in part:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 
> > Also a lot will ride on how Brightline in FL
> goes,
> > post covid.  Thats the proof of concept..
>
> Excuse me but isn't Brightline building a
> completely different system in Florida --
> conventional passenger rail though populated
> areas. How will their success there inlfuence
> their proposed Las Vegas to Apple ValleyHSR line?

If Florida isn't successful who would invest even more money in Brightline Las Vegas?  Different system or not, Brightline needs to prove itself by ridership and ROI. 

Shocking!




(not really)

These attempts to resurrect Vegas service is so funny these days, once I saw the title I could've care less on reading it, another DOA in my view!

ProAmtrak Wrote:
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> These attempts to resurrect Vegas service is so
> funny these days, once I saw the title I could've
> care less on reading it, another DOA in my view!

Yeah but they have a new catchall "Blame it on Covid"  for the delay.   No matter that the muni bond markets are as busy as usual with new issues,  including (gasp) private activity bonds.  Covid didn't cause the lack of decent security for the bonds which is why these aren't gonna sell anytime soon.   And re comparisons with Brightline,  a frequent rail service through a heavily populated area has no relation to a train to a destination resort in the desert.  And how many people drive from Miami to Orlando vs those who fly in from all over the world as well as drive from points north?

I wish they would just forget the whole thing, run a 79MPH Desert Wind twice a day to Salt Lake, under Connect-US but not as a PRIIA-209 service, even if it is not Stephen Gardner's "aspiration", and pay whatever ransom to UP that can be negotiated. 35/36 has been gone 24 years and this thing cannot get off the ground. 

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> I wish they would just forget the whole thing, run
> a 79MPH Desert Wind twice a day to Salt Lake,
> under Connect-US but not as a PRIIA-209 service,
> even if it is not Stephen Gardner's "aspiration",
> and pay whatever ransom to UP that can be
> negotiated. 35/36 has been gone 24 years and this
> thing cannot get off the ground. 
I couldn't agree more!

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wish they would just forget the whole thing, run
> a 79MPH Desert Wind twice a day to Salt Lake,
> under Connect-US but not as a PRIIA-209 service,
> even if it is not Stephen Gardner's "aspiration",
> and pay whatever ransom to UP that can be
> negotiated. 35/36 has been gone 24 years and this
> thing cannot get off the ground. 

And you will be able to board it at several locations between downtown LA and Victorville. 

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wish they would just forget the whole thing, run
> a 79MPH Desert Wind twice a day to Salt Lake,
> under Connect-US but not as a PRIIA-209 service,
> even if it is not Stephen Gardner's "aspiration",
> and pay whatever ransom to UP that can be
> negotiated. 35/36 has been gone 24 years and this
> thing cannot get off the ground. I

I could go for this.  Just need someone with some guts to be running the show, lol

pdt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I wish they would just forget the whole thing,
> run
> > a 79MPH Desert Wind twice a day to Salt Lake,
> > under Connect-US but not as a PRIIA-209
> service,
> > even if it is not Stephen Gardner's
> "aspiration",
> > and pay whatever ransom to UP that can be
> > negotiated. 35/36 has been gone 24 years and
> this
> > thing cannot get off the ground. I
>
> I could go for this.  Just need someone with some
> guts to be running the show, lol

Guts, gumption, brains, and fortitude!

Nathan

Good leadership too, Gardner and whoever else who's trying to push their 2035 plan are too blind to look at the big picture, besides any news on replacement for Superliners? 

Brightline West will likely still happen in 2022. They basically have everyone selected, no need for an EIS (they have until 2026) since Desert Express took care of that and was included in the purchase by Forrest. 

The delay and reopening of Brightline in Florida at the end of this year (or sooner) along with the speed of the construction on the Orlando extension is definitely causing some positive talks for Brightline in proving they can do what they say they can do. If anything, this delay allows them to complete the Victorville to LA EIS and seek funding for the entirety of the route in one go. 

Macster Wrote:
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> Brightline West will likely still happen in 2022.

I'll see it to beleive it! 
 

Macster Wrote in part:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 
> The delay and reopening of Brightline in Florida
> at the end of this year (or sooner) along with the
> speed of the construction on the Orlando extension
> is definitely causing some positive talks for
> Brightline in proving they can do what they say
> they can do.

Exactly; because a HSR electric railroad from Las Vegas to the middle of the desert is the same as a conventional 79mph passenger railroad through metro areas much of which is along exisitng right-of-way. I think I can see some major differences between the projects.

WP17 

This Las Vegas thing is a single purpose, single destination service. It also has to schlep across Metrolink's commuter train system to get in and out of  LA. What good is it to go 160MPH east of Victorville after that ? It'll be wait-then hurry-up eastbound, and hurry-up and wait westbound. It has nothing in common with the Florida rendition. 

It reminds me of the NJT Atlantic City Express service from Manhattan. Despite very limited stops, Newark Penn being it, it could zoom down the NEC at 100+ MPH with the regular Amtrak service, though it was not Amtrak's train, to Frankford Jct, reversed direction, sat there through congestion while everything else had priority, then "zipped" down to Atlantic City with locals. Few rode it. They got much fewer high-wheelers than expected, but got more cheaper day-trippers to the beach when they lowered the fares, but that was not their market. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/21 05:33 by joemvcnj.

Macster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brightline West will likely still happen in 2022.
> They basically have everyone selected, no need for
> an EIS (they have until 2026) since Desert Express
> took care of that and was included in the purchase
> by Forrest. 
>
> The delay and reopening of Brightline in Florida
> at the end of this year (or sooner) along with the
> speed of the construction on the Orlando extension
> is definitely causing some positive talks for
> Brightline in proving they can do what they say
> they can do. If anything, this delay allows them
> to complete the Victorville to LA EIS and seek
> funding for the entirety of the route in one go

Whatever positive press they get from FL is good but they still need financing and I don't see  Brightline financing it themselves.   Maybe they think they can get state guarantees of any debt but that ain't gonna happen.  No way would CA do so, as they foolishly did for HSR and Nevada wouldn't either.  The casinos?   Very doubtful especially as they're trying to rebuild their financials after Covid.. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/21 09:41 by masterphots.

I rmember running our PV "Cynthia" from Salt Lake City to LA on the Desert Wind with a two night stopover in Vegas on one of our "WestCircle" trips.  It was a great trip trip and Amtrak and the UP were very accomodating, expecially during our stay in Vegas.  We had lots of request for a return trip but went to Reno the following year.  Those days of coopeation and accomodiation are gone and will probably never return. PV operations contriuted "extra" revenues to Amtrak which was mostly "gravy" at that time in Amtrak's history.