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Passenger Trains > Caltrain faces sticker shock to electrify lines


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Date: 01/24/22 13:47
Caltrain faces sticker shock to electrify lines
Author: GenePoon

Caltrain faces sticker shock to electrify lines

Progressive Railroading, By Grace.Connatser@..., Associate Editor

Caltrain last month announced its electrification project will cost an additional $462 million over the initial estimate, bringing the total price tag to $2.44 billion.The electric line will run 52 miles from San Francisco’s 4th and King Station to San Jose’s Tamien Station on dual-alignment track.

The cost increase is a result of negotiations and a $347 million contract amendment with contractor Balfour Beatty US that resolved commercial issues and additional costs related to the extended 2024 completion deadline, Caltrain officials said in a press release. The contract was approved Dec. 6, 2021.

The settlement also established a shared risk pool to manage future potential problems and provide incentives for early completion of certain milestones, such as revenue service. The project began in 2017 and is on track to be completed in September 2024.

“With this agreement in place, which includes a mix of incentives and rewards for meeting the 2024 date, we are better positioned to complete this critical project,” said Caltrain Acting Executive Director Michelle Bouchard.


Full story:


https://www.progressiverailroading.com/passenger_rail/article/Caltrain-faces-sticker-shock-to-electrify-lines--65632



Date: 01/24/22 13:55
Re: Caltrain faces sticker shock to electrify lines
Author: Train29

Of course it will cost more. Wasn't the line running just fine with diesel power? Seems like another colossal waste of money. 



Date: 01/24/22 14:45
Re: Caltrain faces sticker shock to electrify lines
Author: altoonafn

I'm having a hard time thinking of a passenger rail project that came in at budget 



Date: 01/24/22 14:53
Re: Caltrain faces sticker shock to electrify lines
Author: will74205

altoonafn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm having a hard time thinking of a passenger
> rail project that came in at budget 

Nor did most road and airport projects. Even most people's house project go over budget. Main reasons: scope creep, unforeseen conditions, inflation.



Date: 01/24/22 14:54
Re: Caltrain faces sticker shock to electrify lines
Author: jeffgeldner

I believe part of the reason for electrification was for the California High Speed Rail project- whose trains were scheduled to enter the City (San Francisco) via the Caltrain route. Not sure if this will ever happen but Caltrain committed to their own project. 



Date: 01/24/22 15:12
Re: Caltrain faces sticker shock to electrify lines
Author: PHall

They're been talking about electrifying the commute service since at least the 1920's. 
It just took getting SP out of the picture for it to happen.



Date: 01/24/22 15:15
Re: Caltrain faces sticker shock to electrify lines
Author: MojaveBill

Electricity is cleaner than diesel.

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA



Date: 01/24/22 15:25
Re: Caltrain faces sticker shock to electrify lines
Author: 4thDistrict

And trains accelerate quicker and stop quicker, allowing for shorter headway between trains resulting in more trains on faster schedules.

MojaveBill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Electricity is cleaner than diesel.



Date: 01/24/22 15:50
Re: Caltrain faces sticker shock to electrify lines
Author: MojaveBill

Yes!

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA



Date: 01/24/22 16:16
Re: Caltrain NOT faces "sticker shock" to electrify lines
Author: jst3751

To clarify, from what I can see, the only "sticker shock" is within the mass media using hype and innuendo.

Nothing in the article itself lends one to believe that anyone at Caltrain is in "sticker shock" over the quite normal increase in cost.



Date: 01/24/22 16:28
Re: Caltrain NOT faces "sticker shock" to electrify lines
Author: 4thDistrict

Exactly. With Covid induced supply chain issues and labor shortages, I'm surprised it isn't even more. All manufacturing sectors are seeing disruptions that eventually cascade down to higher finished costs. We are reminded of that everytime we shop for groceries in our neighborhood food stores. 

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To clarify, from what I can see, the only "sticker
> shock" is within the mass media using hype and
> innuendo.
>
> Nothing in the article itself lends one to believe
> that anyone at Caltrain is in "sticker shock" over
> the quite normal increase in cost.



Date: 01/24/22 16:30
Re: Caltrain faces sticker shock to electrify lines
Author: TAW

altoonafn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm having a hard time thinking of a passenger
> rail project that came in at budget 

...or a highway project, or a military weapons contract, or...

TAW



Date: 01/24/22 16:32
Re: Caltrain faces sticker shock to electrify lines
Author: goduckies

Train29 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course it will cost more. Wasn't the line
> running just fine with diesel power? Seems like
> another colossal waste of money. 
It was and it is...

Posted from Android



Date: 01/24/22 16:32
Re: Caltrain NOT faces "sticker shock" to electrify lines
Author: Passfanatic

Even though Caltrain has been a diesel operation for a very long time, it's time that it gets electrified. Many stations along the route are very close to each other that MU operation is the best way to go. MUs will be great on the local trains and anything that runs between San Jose and San Francisco. South of San Jose Tamien, diesel hauled trains would be needed but maybe someday, Caltran could equip its electric trains with a battery so that way, those MUs could continue from Tamian to Gilroy.



Date: 01/24/22 16:34
Re: Caltrain NOT faces "sticker shock" to electrify lines
Author: goduckies

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To clarify, from what I can see, the only "sticker
> shock" is within the mass media using hype and
> innuendo.
>
> Nothing in the article itself lends one to believe
> that anyone at Caltrain is in "sticker shock" over
> the quite normal increase in cost.

Of course not, it's not their money they are spending

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/22 16:36 by goduckies.



Date: 01/24/22 17:11
Re: Caltrain faces sticker shock to electrify lines
Author: usmc1401

The SP used steam locomotives for about a hundred years they worked just fine.



Date: 01/24/22 17:26
Re: Caltrain faces sticker shock to electrify lines
Author: DevalDragon

altoonafn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 4thDistrict Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And apparently, money for a basic education
> where
> > you went to school didn't grow on trees either.
> >
> > What you foolishly ignore is that much of the
> > current fleet is wearing out and will need to
> be
> > replaced in less than a decade anyway, also at
> > substantial cost. Should we just spend the same
> > money on replacing the current equipment,
> > including those "run just fine" older diesel
> > locos, or modernize the fleet for more
> efficiency?
> > I know the answer. Do you?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > goduckies Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > 4thDistrict Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Another "I have no idea what I am talking
> > > about"
> > > > comment. At least you are consistent.
> > > >
> > > > goduckies Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > Train29 Wrote:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----
> > > > > > Of course it will cost more. Wasn't the
> > > line
> > > > > > running just fine with diesel power?
> > Seems
> > > > like
> > > > > > another colossal waste of money. 
> > > > >
> > > > > It was and it is...
> > > > >
> > > > > Posted from Android
> > >
> > >
> > > I know plenty... those trains run just fine
> > now.
> > > It isn't worth 2 billion to make them a bit
> > > cleaner and run a few minutes faster. Money
> > > doesn't grow on trees.
>
> There is a cost benefit analysis that would need
> to be performed.
>
> There's a big reason freight railroads don't
> electrify....

And a big reason all of the main passenger lines in Europe are electrified...



Date: 01/24/22 17:30
Re: Caltrain faces sticker shock to electrify lines
Author: altoonafn

European economics are vastly different than American. 

Europe also had the fortune of getting a mostly new system after theirs was destroy in WWII.  The US never really optimized the rail system after laying it, outside of a few cutoffs here or there.  There are still a lot of physical barriers. 

British Railways is largely not electric by route miles. 



Date: 01/24/22 17:43
Re: Caltrain faces sticker shock to electrify lines
Author: TAW

altoonafn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Europe also had the fortune of getting a mostly
> new system after theirs was destroy in WWII.

What they had was needed immediately an dput back in service as fast as it could be fixed. They did nolt gat a whole new system. However, as we were building interstate highways and forcing railroads into decrepitude, they were (generally) modernizing their railroads.

TAW



Date: 01/24/22 18:17
Re: Caltrain faces sticker shock to electrify lines
Author: 4thDistrict

And people used outhouses and outdoor plumbing for hundreds of years and they worked just fine. Would you prefer to go back to those times? How about a horse and buggy instead of your air conditioned automobile? SMH.

usmc1401 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The SP used steam locomotives for about a hundred
> years they worked just fine.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/22 18:17 by 4thDistrict.



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