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Passenger Trains > Why didn't the Pennsylvania Railroad build a wye at Penn Station?


Date: 05/09/22 17:15
Why didn't the Pennsylvania Railroad build a wye at Penn Station?
Author: Sp1110

I think that Amtrak should build a wye in Pennsylvania Station. I think that is better than going to Long Island City to turn a locomotive around. Grand Central Terminal has two underground balloon tracks and that station doesn't even see long distance trains.



Date: 05/09/22 17:16
Re: Why didn't the Pennsylvania Railroad build a wye at Penn Stat
Author: GenePoon

With the cost of Manhattan real estate, it would probably cost as much as Amtrak's net worth in total!



Date: 05/09/22 17:29
Re: Why didn't the Pennsylvania Railroad build a wye at Penn Stat
Author: WP17

Sp1110 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think that Amtrak should build a wye in
> Pennsylvania Station. I think that is better than
> going to Long Island City to turn a locomotive
> around. Grand Central Terminal has two underground
> balloon tracks and that station doesn't even see
> long distance trains.

So how many Amtrak locomotives need to get turned at Penn station anyway????
local and regional trains are push pull so no need there, and the few real locomotive hauled trains terminate in NYC and go to Sunnyside for servicing anyway. 
 



Date: 05/09/22 17:48
Re: Why didn't the Pennsylvania Railroad build a wye at Penn Stat
Author: Erie-Lackawanna

Sp1110 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Grand Central Terminal has two underground
> balloon tracks and that station doesn't even see
> long distance trains.

GCT most certainly did have long distance trains for most of its existence. Given that an extension of the NYC rail line past GCT wouldn't get the railroad out of Manhattan to a large yard and servicing facility (same was located 5 miles north of GCT at Mott Haven, Bronx), a loop track was the only solution. 

And as a point of fact, GCT now only has one loop track. The lower level loop was removed in the 1980s, as it was no longer necessary for today's commuter service. The upper level loop still exists and is used daily for moves between the west side platform tracks and the east side yard tracks. 

Jim



Date: 05/09/22 18:21
Re: Why didn't the Pennsylvania Railroad build a wye at Penn Stat
Author: raytc1944

Trains  left PENN station and went  through the East River tubes they immediately upon leaving the tubes they went around the loop tracks in Long Island City and entered Sunnyside passenger car yard where the cars would be serviced by PRR and Pullman Company employees.  Thus the trains were properly turned and ready to proceed to PENN station to accept pass/engers.  A wye would have served no purpose.



Date: 05/10/22 02:40
Re: Why didn't the Pennsylvania Railroad build a wye at Penn Stat
Author: joemvcnj

No need. Most electric locos were double-ended. MU trains are by definition

Posted from Android



Date: 05/10/22 05:46
Re: Why didn't the Pennsylvania Railroad build a wye at Penn Stat
Author: NGotwalt

Nothing PRR operated into Penn Station required one. Trains that needed to be turned had a significant layover period for servicing, trains that did need them could have the power run around the train.

Nick

Posted from iPhone



Date: 05/10/22 08:24
Re: Why didn't the Pennsylvania Railroad build a wye at Penn Stat
Author: Lackawanna484

Commuter trains on the Pennsylvania Railroad went to Jersey City until the late 1950s. Pennsylvania Station in NYC was mostly longer haul trains.



Date: 05/10/22 10:02
Re: Why didn't the Pennsylvania Railroad build a wye at Penn Stat
Author: pdt

Why do u ask this question? 

Answer, btw is... There is one.  It was called the Harold Q-R-F secondary tracks in the PRR days.  Today its called the loop tracks.  Just east of the station where all the (non-lirr) trains lay up and are serviced..Sunnyside yard.

 



Date: 05/10/22 10:38
Re: wye in NY
Author: timz

Next question: NY Central built the upper-level loop
at GCT to turn long-distance trains -- easier than wying
them at Mott Haven. But why did it build lower-level
loops that were presumably usable only by MUs?



Date: 05/10/22 17:54
Re: wye in NY
Author: Erie-Lackawanna

To allow trains arriving in west-side tracks to yard in east-side yard tracks without having to pull north, then south, then north again to the yard track, all the while blocking the running tracks from U to B, thereby reducing capacity for arriving and departing trains.

The removal of the lower level loop has resulted in just that scenario, although on a much reduced basis, as much of the yard capacity on the lower level has also been removed. Nevertheless, yard moves on the lower level have a tendency to tie the place in knots when unplanned stuff happens. With the loop in place, it was less likely to have the place tied up with yard moves. 

Also, like the upper level, it allowed trains to discharge passengers and continue around the loop and head back out for a second run in the rush hour, without having to cross the train over from the far west side to the east side running track and back north. 

Jim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/22 17:57 by Erie-Lackawanna.



Date: 05/10/22 20:07
Re: wye in NY
Author: mp51w

My buddy, who was a car attendant, said he used to shower in the dorm car while the Lake Shore Ltd. turned around on the GCT balloon track, prior to being set up for it's Westbound departure.



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