Passenger Trains > Alternative to Expensive New Commuter Locomotives

Good news if you like classic F40 power.  As an alternative to expensive new commuter locomotives
(along with the long delivery lead times) Rolling Stock Solutions, LLC has set up a leasing
platform to provide commuter agencies the ability to quickly obtain like-new remanufactured 
units that meet current emissions standards.  An excerpt from the attached link:

"RSS is currently overhauling its initial fleet of F40PH locomotives through a comprehensive
rebuild partnership with CAD Railway Industries and their U.S based partner Metro East Industries
– both industry leaders with decades of locomotive design and rebuild experience. The RSS fleet 
will deploy to initial lease operations with commuter rail agency customers in mid-2023."

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/rolling-stock-solutions-to-provide-on-demand-locomotive-power-for-commuter-rail-301565928.html

The article specifically mentions upgrading to meet Tier 4 standards.  That would not seem possible
with an EMD 645 prime mover so an upgrade to a 710(or Caterpillar or Cummins) would seem likely.

---

Whose engines were they originally, Metra or MBTA ? 

The above picture colors on the unit look photo shoped.

Read the article more carefully. It mentions HEP upgraded to Tier 4 and "a fully rebuilt prime mover." Also, "RSS models are well known to the agency's maintenance work force, and no new training or tooling is required to deploy RSS units into service." They're not promising a new Tier 4 compliant prime mover. Sounds like a thoroughly overhauled 645 to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/22 09:12 by CPR_4000.

milepost20 Wrote:
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> The article specifically mentions upgrading to
> meet Tier 4 standards.

Nope, read again.

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usmc1401 Wrote:
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> The above picture colors on the unit look photo
> shoped.

They just changed the colors for whatever reason. It's definitely a Metra locomotive in its natural habitat.

Yes, guys, thanks for the correction on Tier 4 compliance referring to the HEP-only as
that is a critical distinction(and big money saver).

As for obtaining future cores for this program Caltrain will have available for re-sale
about 20 F40's in a couple of years.  I'm sure there are other examples.

The 710 engine cannot meet Tier 4, which is why EMD went on a crash crusade to get the 1010 four stroke engine up to snuff. (and it seems pretty good BTW) If you need EMD power AND Tier 4 that's what you buy. If you can be satisified with Tier 3 a 710 will work...and there are ways to do that...I suspect there are a number of F40PH's that can legally be remanufactured to Tier 3 for the prime mover, quite possibly theres even a few that can get a remanned 645...if not mistaken they can be made compliant to Tier 0, Tier 1, Tier 1A, and maybe, just maybe Tier 2. All Tiers are currently legal with an upgrade path with so many loopholes that almost any engine can stay on it's present Tier for quite a while. 

As long as they can produce a reliable engine, and the transit agencies dont insist on "buy new" to get kickbacks and political patronage, this will work. 

Unfortunately, major rebuilds (not refbuilt-in-kind) have a history of mechanical issues and  short life spans.

710 can meet Teir 4 with exhaust treament, That was the route EMD was taking before the Class 1s shot the ideal down. Thats when EMD scrambed to make the 1010 that could meet Teir 4 with out treament
engineerinvirginia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The 710 engine cannot meet Tier 4, which is why
> EMD went on a crash crusade to get the 1010 four
> stroke engine up to snuff. (and it seems pretty
> good BTW) If you need EMD power AND Tier 4 that's
> what you buy. If you can be satisified with Tier 3
> a 710 will work...and there are ways to do
> that...I suspect there are a number of F40PH's
> that can legally be remanufactured to Tier 3 for
> the prime mover, quite possibly theres even a few
> that can get a remanned 645...if not mistaken they
> can be made compliant to Tier 0, Tier 1, Tier 1A,
> and maybe, just maybe Tier 2. All Tiers are
> currently legal with an upgrade path with so many
> loopholes that almost any engine can stay on it's
> present Tier for quite a while. 

NSDTK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 710 can meet Tier 4 with exhaust treatment, That
> was the route EMD was taking before the Class 1s
> shot the ideal down. Thats when EMD scrambed to
> make the 1010 that could meet Teir 4 with out
> treament

At one time, I recall that Progress Rail was offering a Tier 4 710 on that basis, but now it only offers those engines for marine and stationary applications:

ProgressRail | Marine & Stationary Engines

My guess is that those engines would not fit within the envelope of a typical railroad locomotive. I wish I knew the actual circumstances, but I bet that the design engineers could make it fit if Progress Rail found actual interest.

I would love to hear the true story.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> Whose engines were they originally, Metra or MBTA
> ? 

I belive the "fleet" in reference are the Coaster F40PHM-2C's that were recently sent to SA Recycling/Coast Rail in Anaheim, sans one unit which will eventually end up at PSRM in Campo. 

NS GP34ECO #4800 is equipped with an EMD 12-cylinder 12-710G3-T4 ECO engine that meets Tier 4 emissions using DEF.

NS GP34ECO 4800 Roster Page


Chris Toth
NSDash9.com

NSDash9 Wrote:
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> NS GP34ECO #4800 is equipped with an EMD
> 12-cylinder 12-710G3-T4 ECO engine that meets Tier
> 4 emissions using DEF.
>
> NS GP34ECO 4800 Roster Page
>
>
> Chris Toth
> NSDash9.com

Thanks Chris. That is exactly what I wanted to hear.

Any word on how it is performing?

ts1457 Wrote:
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> Any word on how it is performing?

I haven't heard much about it, actually.  It's still in active service, so at least that's a good sign.

Chris Toth
NSDash9.com

NSDTK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 710 can meet Teir 4 with exhaust treament, That
> was the route EMD was taking before the Class 1s
> shot the ideal down. Thats when EMD scrambed to
> make the 1010 that could meet Teir 4 with out
> treament
> engineerinvirginia Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The 710 engine cannot meet Tier 4, which is why
> > EMD went on a crash crusade to get the 1010
> four
> > stroke engine up to snuff. (and it seems pretty
> > good BTW) If you need EMD power AND Tier 4
> that's
> > what you buy. If you can be satisified with Tier
> 3
> > a 710 will work...and there are ways to do
> > that...I suspect there are a number of F40PH's
> > that can legally be remanufactured to Tier 3
> for
> > the prime mover, quite possibly theres even a
> few
> > that can get a remanned 645...if not mistaken
> they
> > can be made compliant to Tier 0, Tier 1, Tier
> 1A,
> > and maybe, just maybe Tier 2. All Tiers are
> > currently legal with an upgrade path with so
> many
> > loopholes that almost any engine can stay on
> it's
> > present Tier for quite a while. 

The railroads must accept that after treatment is coming whether they want it or not!

engineerinvirginia Wrote:
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> The railroads must accept that after treatment is
> coming whether they want it or not!

I think the railroads would have been better off to go with the DEF from the start. You have problems if you can't figure out how to keep DEF tanks full on a locomotive (but we have seen that railroad management has not been able to figure out a lot of things recently).

If the RR's can get DEF !!! There is a big shortage of DEF right now. It does not help that the majority of urea comes from Russia, and China. I wonder does a locomotive that runs out of DEF go into limp mode like highway trucks do ? --------------Ken 

I read on that story  (sorry, don't have the reference) that the largest manufacturer of DEF was told by Union Pacific that they must cut back the tank cars they have on the railroad significantly because UP can't handle the traffic given them to move. The company was worried that trucks would run short and have to shut down. I machine if the railroads were using it too.

Bruce Stikkers 
St. Joseph, IL

BruceStikkers Wrote:
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> I read on that story  (sorry, don't have the
> reference) that the largest manufacturer of DEF
> was told by Union Pacific that they must cut back
> the tank cars they have on the railroad
> significantly because UP can't handle the traffic
> given them to move. The company was worried that
> trucks would run short and have to shut down. I
> machine if the railroads were using it too.
>
> Bruce Stikkers 
> St. Joseph, IL

The company in question, besides being the largest USA producer of DEF is also the largest urea fertilizer supplier in the country.