Passenger Trains > HSR Could Bring a Rebirth to SP's old Bayshore Yard

The California High Speed Rail Authority has just released the Final Environmental Impact Report/
Environmental Impact Statement for the San Francisco to San Jose segment focusing on the integration
of future HSR with Caltrain's commute service over a mainly two track line.  Global Railway Review 
summarizes a few highlights: 
https://www.globalrailwayreview.com/news/135034/chsra-release-final-environmental-impact-report-for-project-section/

The report confirms the old SP Bayshore Yard site(abandoned for 30+ years) as the new East Brisbane
Maintenance Facility with yard leads off the main that closely approximates the old SP locations of
Bayshore and Visitacion.  Scroll down to page 10 at the following link for a look at the track diagram: 
https://hsr.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Final_EIRS_FJ_V3-11_Alternative-B_Book_B4.pdf

In a shot from 2013 an empty UP dirt train rolls north past the ruins of the old yard seen on the right
at Caltrain's Bayshore station.  



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/22 21:09 by milepost20.

---

---

When CAHSR eventually does not get built, the land could be sold for overpriced condominiums.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/22 08:52 by GenePoon.

Sure would like to see a maintenance facility there. Warriors are simply amazing.

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When CAHSR eventually does not get built, the
> land could be sold for overpriced condominiums.

Doubtful, they would need to do a major, major clean up before you could build housing there.
But you could build offices or industry.

First, I appreciate the second image you sneaked in there...Way to Go Dubs!

The old Bayshore property seems like a logical spot for this type of facility.

There are plenty here that claim the idea of HSR in CA is a boondoggle, but it only is in so much as the obstructionism that it has encountered since day one has led it to be. This type of infrastructure needs to be viewed from a multi-generational perspective, for the public good, and unfortunately many in the US choose not to view things from that perspective. There is obstruction from wealthy communities along the route that don't want to see construction and an increase in trains in their communities. There is is obstruction from conservative groups in the Central Valley that are ignoring the impact that HSR could have in addressing some of our housing and economic development issues between the Bay Area, LA Basin, and through the Central Valley.

I've ridden high speed trains in Europe and Asia. Even non-high speed lines demonstrate how far behind the US has fallen on intercity passenger travel in local and regional markets where it would make sense and could be competitive with air travel. I live in Burlingame and welcome the upgrades being made to Caltrain. Electrification will bring quieter, cleaner, and more frequent commuter rail operations to the Peninsula, which will be appreciated. I'm left to wonder, however, what this will look like for the approximately 45 mile run between San Jose and San Francisco for an HSR train. Burlingame and San Mateo are terrible with the number of grade crossings. Ditto for portions of Redwood City, Mountain View, etc. I've been on Caltrain when it's hit a vehicle at the Broadway grade crossing in Burlingame, and this typically happens a couple times per year. A mostly dual track, non-grade separated line will slow things down substantially. (Unfortunately many of the same individuals who likely voted for the initial HSR measure have resorted to NIMBYism when the subject of grade separation came up, and not with consideration to the cost.)

Contrast this with Europe, where lines have been built between, around, and through dense urban centers. Decades long multi-billion Euro projects like the Gotthard Base Tunnel and Brenner Base Tunnel, along with others, can be constructed with public and political support. I took the Eurostar from London to Brussels, and later took the Thalys from Brussels to Amsterdam. Even on the lower speed sections between Tubize and Antwerp, which is around 40+ miles and comparable to the distance between San Jose and San Francisco, the trains were running on tracks adjacent to the tracks used by regional and local trains at speeds in excess of 100 mph. Everything was grade separated. There are ~1,200 passenger trains per day operated through the six track North-South connection tunnel in Brussels, including HSR trains of Eurostar and Thalys. Contrast the US with Japan and Taiwan, where I would commute between major cities while traveling there for business meetings on trains that were running close to 300 km/h on track far smoother than anything I've experienced in the US.

I can only dream someday we'll be have something even close to what they have. It's really quite good, as most anyone whose ridden it will attest. Photos of the Thalys train in Brussels and a screen shot from between Rotterdam and Antwerp, where we were traveling ~300 km/h (186 mph).

Rant over.

Sean

---

---

Amen brother.

I doubt we'll see much of that, the way the valley segment's going I'll still say it's a pipe dream!

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/22 16:58 by ProAmtrak.

PHall Wrote:
------------------------------------------
> Doubtful, they would need to do a major, major
> clean up before you could build housing there.
> But you could build offices or industry.

==================================

Overpriced, vacant office buildings, then.

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PHall Wrote:
> ------------------------------------------
> > Doubtful, they would need to do a major, major
> > clean up before you could build housing there.
> > But you could build offices or industry.
>
> ==================================
>
> Overpriced, vacant office buildings, then.

does the entire old bayshore yard area need a major clean-up or just the fueling and locomotive areas?

66

What ever happened to the group that was trying to start a museum there?

Wattslocal

The SJ Valley segment is quietly being built...

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

wattslocal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What ever happened to the group that was trying to
> start a museum there?
>
> Wattslocal

Moved near Napa

Posted from Android

Having just flown to Europe and back, how HSR could work realistically in the US is to connect the airports.... so let's day you go NYC to SF, there I'd zero chance you will take a train, but you could connect to the central valley there... same for Portland to Seattle you aren't taking a train to NYC from Portland but you could once you land in PDX to Eugene or Vancouver BC etc... that's how it could work here, with partnerships with the airports ...

I landed at CDG and it was great to walk a bit and Join the train , same for Zurich, so efficient! But long distance no it doesn't make sense in the US over flying.

Posted from Android

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
IF CAHSR eventually does not get built, the
> land could be sold for overpriced condominiums.

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Overpriced, vacant office buildings, then.

In better times, the South San Francisco biotech industries would have expand out to Bayshore Yard.

I had an off topic coversation (in person and uncensorable) recently regarding the commercial real estate in the area, and it seems South City has ordinances which prevent tall buildings, so much of the biotech expansion has gone elsewhere.

So vacant office building it is. :-)

broken_link Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are plenty here that claim the idea of HSR
> in CA is a boondoggle, but it only is in so much
> as the obstructionism that it has encountered
> since day one has led it to be.

I've been following the CA HSR project since its grass roots days, at least 4 years before Prop 1A was on the ballot in 2008. The infamous Palo Alto NIMBY was infighting inside the CA HSR to force the routing to Altamont.

But first you must understand that organized obstructionism is manipulated by politicians. You also have to throw away the D vs. R bias. I've witnessed quite a few suspicious ones in my life, for example anti-constructionism in the Coyote Valley. As CA HSR progresses south of San Jose, we'll see if Coyote Valley environmentalists will spring into action or not. I'll comment on that and provide some "analysis" when the time comes. :-)

Anyway, real obstructionism would have focused on Dumbarton Jct. (Redwood City) and north to kill the project for good. Nope. It wasn't organized that way because in order to get enough votes for Prop 1A to pass, some groups sold the Altamont Pass idea to voters. Altamont Pass advocates got mad on the San Jose routing, so the Palo Alto NIMBYs were dispatched to force the Altamont routing via the Dumbarton Bridge.

You can say many of the Palo Alto NIMBYs were useful idiots. Except for the one guy whining about the catenary pole blocking his view from his apartment, they've been awfully quiet for a decade. All moot, because the funding set aside for the Dumbarton Bridge project got "reappropriated" to BART to San Jose project. Altamont Pass routing is dead.

Anyway, read the Guardian article linked in the thread below:

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,5481342

Early proponent of CA HSR (and former board member) has turned against the project, because it is nothing but a money grab right now. CA HSR do not care if the trains operate or not. They are helping construction interests collect money NOW. Why just build a single track railroad between Wasco and Madera?

All you supporters can rant about the merits of the project. CA HSR don't care. You won't get what you want. I've stopped calling for regime change within CA HSR, because no one on TO cares, but getting rid of mismanagement is the first necessary step to make this project successful. The ex-board member probably feels the same.
 

goduckies Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Having just flown to Europe and back, how HSR
> could work realistically in the US is to connect
> the airports....

I disagree. In fact, none of the Shinkansen lines serve any airports yet they make $profits$. Conventional speed lines provide the connections instead. Japanese consider ski resorts to be more important than airports, as there's an HSR station built specifically for that - look up "GALA Yuzawa".

It's nice that Europeans provide the luxury of HSR access to airports, but they already had the conventional speed network to support HSR ridership to begin with. Same with Japan, so they can afford to provide ski resort access via HSR. That's the key to HSR success, to build up the conventional speed network and gain ridership that way.

HSR in the U.S. will not succeed like Europe or Asia because of the Automobile Hegemony. Accumulate passenger ridership by exploiting intolerable congestion. The rise of Metrolink and light rail lines in Los Angeles area might be an example of that. If this occurs organically, then maybe HSR will be viable generations from now.
 

Japan and Europe aren't the size of the US... you aren’t getting someone on a HSR train from Chicago to DC or NYC or Denver over a plane. It just isn't happening period.

Posted from Android

goduckies Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Having just flown to Europe and back, how HSR
> could work realistically in the US is to connect
> the airports.... so let's day you go NYC to SF,
> there I'd zero chance you will take a train, but
> you could connect to the central valley there...
> same for Portland to Seattle you aren't taking a
> train to NYC from Portland but you could once you
> land in PDX to Eugene or Vancouver BC etc...
> that's how it could work here, with partnerships
> with the airports ...
>
> I landed at CDG and it was great to walk a bit and
> Join the train , same for Zurich, so efficient!
> But long distance no it doesn't make sense in the
> US over flying.
>
> Posted from Android

Nice idea, but you know good and well this country's so backwards when it comes to rail in general you're asking for a big time political fight just to at least get funding!

Stay tuned. Another "election" and the DA could say its a new homeless and or crime holding area.  Never can tell these days.

Nudge