Passenger Trains > Photo of #4 on its side

Note that the engine was still upright



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/22 09:12 by edsaalig.

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2 hours before the wreck , wish we could time travel   https://www.facebook.com/100003529996308/videos/1022890911929445/

Is there a photo of nose of lead unit.


Bob

Posted from Android

I saw a brief shot of the lead locomotive, it had extensive damage on the left (fireman) side of the nose indicating that was where the truck was hit.   Since the train was eastbound, then that means the truck was probably norhtbound and did not quite clear the crossing in time.   The photos and reports I see indicatie this crossing had crossbucks and a stop sign, whether the truck stopped or not will show up on the lead units camera.

4thDistrict Wrote:
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> There has been speculation that the baggage car,
> being lighter than the Superliners, hopped off the
> track at impact due to the weight behind it
> pushing on it, and knocked the rest of the train
> out of alignment with the rails, causing them to
> fall over. 

Strange that the Superliners all toppled over to the right. Why not the left, or simply jack-knife and zig-zag ? 

robj Wrote:
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> Is there a photo of nose of lead unit.
>
>
> Bob
>
> Posted from Android

I haven't seen any photos of it yet, but someone posted a drone video on *that video site* of the whole train.  The shot is from above so it's a little hard to see just exactly how bad it is, but you can tell that the nose of the lead unit definitely took a good whallop on the fireman's side.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 4thDistrict Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There has been speculation that the baggage
> car,
> > being lighter than the Superliners, hopped off
> the
> > track at impact due to the weight behind it
> > pushing on it, and knocked the rest of the
> train
> > out of alignment with the rails, causing them
> to
> > fall over. 
>
> Strange that the Superliners all toppled over to
> the right. Why not the left, or simply jack-knife
> and zig-zag ? 

We really don't have enough information to make any informed speculation about the cause of the derailment (yes, I know the obvious "It hit a truck", but I mean details such as what the specific sequence of events were and how the derailment occured). It appears to me that the rail on the right side rolled;  Did the rail roll under the train because of debris from the collision and cause the train to derail?  Did a car towards the back of the train derail and pull the rest of the train over (tightlock couplers), causing the rail to roll?  There are a lot of possible explanations for how the derailment happened the way it did but one thing to make clear is that with the amount of energy involved (600 tons of steel moving 90 MPH) almost anything could have happened.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> Strange that the Superliners all toppled over to the right. Why not the left, or simply jack-knife and zig-zag ? 

Isn't that what tightlock couplers are for, to prevent jackknifing?

CPR_4000 Wrote:
> Isn't that what tightlock couplers are for, to
> prevent jackknifing?

No, they are suppsed to prevent telescoping. They re supposed to jacknife to absorb impact.

I thought I heard a passenger state the roll over was slow motion. I take that to mean it was toward the end which could be why there is no jack knifing, the cars just tipped over when there was no more forward motion.

Bob

Posted from Android

This is one of the best shots I've seen so far of the units.  
But it does not show the nose nor the left side.

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. They
> re supposed to jacknife to absorb impact.

i don't think so

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> CPR_4000 Wrote:
> > Isn't that what tightlock couplers are for, to
> > prevent jackknifing?
>
> No, they are suppsed to prevent telescoping. They
> re supposed to jacknife to absorb impact.

That's about as wrong as it gets (jack-knifing).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/22 12:02 by exhaustED.

"Tightlock couplers are a variety of Janney coupler, typically used on North American mainline passenger rail cars. They are designed with mechanical features which reduce slack in normal operation and prevent telescoping in derailments"

- Wikipedia

This was posted on FB in a fan group

 

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Thanks Spoony81.

I'm thinking (and hoping) it's quite possible eveyone on the head end walked away.

CPR_4000 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Strange that the Superliners all toppled over to
> the right. Why not the left, or simply jack-knife
> and zig-zag ? 
>
> Isn't that what tightlock couplers are for, to
> prevent jackknifing?
While the intent of tightlock couplers may be to prevent telescoping, to do that they must prevent cars from separating.  If the cars can't separate they can't jack-knife either.  So in this regard, the tightlocks did their job.  The downside, of course, is when a car leans and wants to topple over on its side the tightlock couplers also transmit some of that turning torque to leading and trailing cars too. 
The photo from Channel 41 indicates that the front truck of the lead unit is derailed.  That would be consistent with the velocity of the impact but also the oblique angle of the impact with the brunt of it occurring on the fireman's side of the unit.  The impact with the vehicle likely raised the nose of the unit while simultaneously shoving it to the right.  That might have created enough force to either roll the right-hand rail outward or simply forced the right-hand wheels over the top of the rail.  Either way, the left-hand wheels drop inside the gauge and, in effect, you've got a can opener severely damaging the track structure by widening the gauge so that following cars are going to drop in as well.  It's not strange that the Superliners all toppled over to the right when you consider the initial derailment was to the right and the right-hand rail was being displaced to the right.  Once those right-hand wheels began dropping off the ends of the ties crushed rock ballast provides zero support as a running surface, allowing wheels to dig in and start sinking deeper.  With the right-hand wheels plowing the ballast shoulder while the left-hand wheels are still riding the ties, the list to the right becomes more pronounced as forward motion continues and eventually gravity will lay the cars on their sides with that desire to topple assisted by torque transmitted via tightlock couplers.   

MarionLinn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CPR_4000 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > joemvcnj Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > Strange that the Superliners all toppled over
> to
> > the right. Why not the left, or simply
> jack-knife
> > and zig-zag ? 
> >
> > Isn't that what tightlock couplers are for, to
> > prevent jackknifing?
> While the intent of tightlock couplers may be to
> prevent telescoping, to do that they must prevent
> cars from separating.  If the cars can't separate
> they can't jack-knife either.  So in this regard,
> the tightlocks did their job.  The downside, of
> course, is when a car leans and wants to topple
> over on its side the tightlock couplers also
> transmit some of that turning torque to leading
> and trailing cars too. 
> The photo from Channel 41 indicates that the front
> truck of the lead unit is derailed.  That would
> be consistent with the velocity of the impact but
> also the oblique angle of the impact with the
> brunt of it occurring on the fireman's side of the
> unit.  The impact with the vehicle likely raised
> the nose of the unit while simultaneously shoving
> it to the right.  That might have created enough
> force to either roll the right-hand rail outward
> or simply forced the right-hand wheels over the
> top of the rail.  Either way, the left-hand
> wheels drop inside the gauge and, in effect,
> you've got a can opener severely damaging the
> track structure by widening the gauge so that
> following cars are going to drop in as well. 
> It's not strange that the Superliners all toppled
> over to the right when you consider the initial
> derailment was to the right and the right-hand
> rail was being displaced to the right.  Once
> those right-hand wheels began dropping off the
> ends of the ties crushed rock ballast provides
> zero support as a running surface, allowing wheels
> to dig in and start sinking deeper.  With the
> right-hand wheels plowing the ballast shoulder
> while the left-hand wheels are still riding the
> ties, the list to the right becomes more
> pronounced as forward motion continues and
> eventually gravity will lay the cars on their
> sides with that desire to topple assisted by
> torque transmitted via tightlock couplers.   

Well stated MarionLinn.
That's my theory as well.

Here is a better look at the left side of the units:
(Around 0:54 is the best look)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/22 14:06 by restricted_speed.

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Nice video footage, still sucks that had to happen though, but I can say the driver might even assumed the freight was the only one on the tracks to wait on and then started to cross then no. 4 showed up, which is all too common on DT!

Posted from Android