Passenger Trains > Amtrak Does Not Like Timetables Posted at their Stations

Some members of the Michigan Association of Railroad Passengers (MARP)desired to post laminated timetables for the Michigan Services at all the Amtrak stations in Michigan (at the organizations expense).  We solicited the permission from Amtrak to do so.  Here is the response received "We (Amtrak) are not going to bless this. MARP is free to distribute it's documents through it's own channels but Amtrak does not agree with printed  timetables, so will not consent in a manner which gives them imprimatur of authority".  This seems short sided to me.  Any thoughts?

Actually I can see why not. If Amtrak makes changes, how will they be sure posted changes are made?

Bob

Posted from Android

robj Wrote:
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> Actually I can see why not. If Amtrak makes
> changes, how will they be sure posted changes are
> made?
>
> Bob

Valid point, but the word that "Amtrak does not agree with printed timetables" is a revelation. It indicates that the disappearance of printed timetables from the World of Amtrak is an existential imperative, and not just an imbecillic (and inconveniencing) strategy for saving a few dollars.

I'd be in favor of putting them up anyway, with the "caveat" that they are not guarenteed and suggest calling Amtrk to confirm.

After all, we know Amtrak timetables are a work of fiction.

B&OBill

I remember very clearly that 40 years ago airlines all had printed timetables.
And now they don’t.

Perhaps Amtrak’s airline leadership wants to bring mystery into railroading.

Soon there may be no more printed rule books….. oh, wait a minute!

trainnut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Here is the
> response received "We (Amtrak) are not going to
> bless this. MARP is free to distribute it's
> documents through it's own channels but Amtrak
> does not agree with printed  timetables, so will
> not consent in a manner which gives them
> imprimatur of authority".  This seems short sided
> to me.  Any thoughts?

I have a very hard time believing that is Amtrak's official communication to MARP and not someone's interpretation of Amtrak's response.

1)   "We (Amtrak) are not going to bless this."  Presumably MARP is seeking Amtrak's permission, not its blessing.  There is a difference.  Even if Amtrak does not "bless" MARP providing timetables, it is not expressly prohibiting MARP from posting timetables.  If Amtrak intends to prohibit MARP from posting timetables, stronger language would be used.

2) To the best of my knowledge, Amtrak never released a statement that it will no longer issue timetables (printed or pdf format).  

3)  Unless the information contained in printed timetables is incorrect, a transportation provider cannot "disagree with printed timetables."   Maybe there are some words missing.  A transportation provider would be much more likely to say something to along the lines that it no longer views printed timetables as being an effective means of communicating schedule information.

If that is the actual communication to MARP, then shame on Amtrak for such an unprofessional response, both in content and style.

If the Blue Water, Pere Marquette, and Wolverine are all state supported services, perhaps Michigan DOT would provide a more supportive response.  Better yet, Michigan DOT would post the timetables in the stations.

 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/22 09:33 by RuleG.

The word bless was a red flag for me, too. 

Timetables  are  advertising.  Amtrak  forgot  marketing  some  time  ago.

what is the OTP of the michigan trains?  as of late

This seems dubious and not sure I buy it. I live in Western Massachusetts and a local advocacy group posts in house produced timetables for the local Vermonter and Valley Flyer services and posts them at a few of the local stations and have never heard of any problem. Granted Amtrak isn’t the owner of these stations but they also aren’t the owner of some of the Michigan stations.

Amtrak May have well had a response indicating they aren’t going to endorse third party printed timetables as they cannot guarantee their accuracy on a day to day basis - but I find it hard to believe the response was as belligerent as what was implied here



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/22 09:36 by lordsigma.

walstib Wrote:
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> The word bless was a red flag for me, too. 

"Bless" and "imprimatur" are words not often seen in business communications

This was an actual response from Amtrak.  I have forwarded the response to Jim Mathews of the RPA.  He reports getting the same negative reaction from Amtrak when the RPA posted their own schedules.  I believe the negative response is due to an airline mentality at Amtrak.  We have posted printed timetables for the Michigan Services in stations throughout Michigan and those timetables are being picked up and used by the traveling public.  The timetable referenced is a laminated one being affixed to the entry doors or windows for use when the stations are not open.

The timetable produced by MARP have a disclaimer which protects against timetable changes.

trainnut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This was an actual response from Amtrak.  I have
> forwarded the response to Jim Mathews of the
> RPA.  He reports getting the same negative
> reaction from Amtrak when the RPA posted their own
> schedules.  I believe the negative response is
> due to an airline mentality at Amtrak.  We have
> posted printed timetables for the Michigan
> Services in stations throughout Michigan and those
> timetables are being picked up and used by the
> traveling public.  The timetable referenced is a
> laminated one being affixed to the entry doors or
> windows for use when the stations are not open.

Amtrak gets more unbelievable every month. I guess the airline mentality people don’t realize that trains stop 20 or 30 times between the endpoints, and people might like to have an idea where they are and what time the next stop is? Plus on many routes the schedules are just some imaginary idea anyhow. Is this thing even worth funding anymore? I’m about over their incompetence.

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/22 10:40 by alan2955.

The only way to get pdf public timetable distribution is to require it in appropriation bills.

Recalcitrant children need rules.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/22 11:30 by joemvcnj.

Who at Amtrak actually wrote the reply? Any signature(s)? 
Anybody claiming responsibility?  A rhetorical question, but.....
 

Maybe they're looking at like this. If they allow an outside group to post the schedules then how can they say no to other advertisers wanting to post their stuff for free?
Amtrak charges advertisers to allow their ads to be posted. They're basically renting out the space. 

It's insane Amtrak just can't update the ones that they've used for the last 30 years with the current times and make them available for download/printing on their website. The issue is just another part of not wanting to run the network more than an actual timetable hangup.  Childish but it's what we've come to expect.   



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/22 12:03 by Flyer92122.

For whatever reason, Amtrak detests a paper trail of their schedules in public hands, whoever prepares them, the very public who subsidizes them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/22 14:39 by joemvcnj.

CPMorris Wrote:
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> Who at Amtrak actually wrote the reply? Any
> signature(s)? 
> Anybody claiming responsibility?  A rhetorical
> question, but.....
>  

That would not be a rhetorical question from me.  It is difficult to believe that anyone in a professional capacity could write such a response.  

I am still trying to figure out how one disagrees with a printed timetable.   Can one have a conversation with a printed timetable and disagree about Philadelphia's best cheese steak, whether the Milwaukee Brewers will make it to the World Series, or whether the California Zephyr or Coast Starlight is Amtrak's most scenic route?