Passenger Trains > LD’s reality check

Posted: Today
I work within Amtrak. I see first hand what’s going on, and have enough outside knowledge to put together the entire picture as I see it.

The era of Long-Distance is coming to a close. The equipment we have is 40-45 years old and parts are non-existent to fix all the problems with car maintenance. Every train I’ve been on has had at least one major issue. Whether it’s the restrooms, refrigeration, heat/air, kitchen, name it - it’s broken for the entire journey.

There’s no new cars on order, and if there was it would take years to completely retrofit the entire fleet. There’s only two remaining manufacturers of passenger rail cars, both European owned. And we have quality issues with both.

We’re destined with single level cars going forward regardless of long or corridor service.

Long distance will be withering away in time. Watch for only coach and lounger service and the removal of sleeping and dining car service. Both types of cars are more expensive to build than simple coaches.

Sad part is the American traveling public won’t miss the service. There are countless cities with no Amtrak service and they’ve been getting along without it for 50 plus years!

The writing is in the wall and now everyone can watch it unfold.

realistic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Sad part is the American traveling public won’t
> miss the service. There are countless cities with
> no Amtrak service and they’ve been getting along
> without it for 50 plus years!

True! Two generations have now grown-up without any idea of what a train is.
By the way, are the new Viewliner Diners still sitting "in the weeds" at Hialeah?
 

All due to management and the people they have fooled for lack of better words. The money is there to renew the fleets and fix what we have. The will isn't. Gardners motives were known years ago. Covid was used as cover to do what his former boss Anderson couldn't.

If Congress really cared about this, they would have Mr Gardner and Mr Harris on the Hill.  And representatives of Amtrak's oddly silent unions there to provide another perspective. Why hasn't Amtrak opened the overtime spigots for anyone who wants the heavy repair work?

What I can't understand is why the unions aren't out on the streets with "informational picketing" like the airline pilots and machinists have done. Airline management made similar poor choices, and aggressively over scheduled their routes for the staff they had available to handle them. Amtrak seems to be doing the opposite, cutting back their services.

I get it. I'm very involved in my pilot union. I just don't see the fight in Amtrak employees like the airline staff. For lack of better words I see entitlement in a lot of Amtrak employees and that may come from the union. They aren't afraid of getting laid off it appears. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but even if the system shuts down employees are paid for an additional 18 months. 

This whole thing is insane. Why hasn't Congress woken up, demanded hearings? Why hasn't Senator Moran (R, KS) a ally of the SWC put a hold on Coscias renomination like he did to Trumps picks. Don't get me started on RPA I'm really disappointed with their tone of hotlines the past 2 weeks.

I don't understand it either.

Amtrak has Billions and Billions--and still  more Billions! -- at their disposal for long haul equipment, (or anything they could dream of)!

By not asking for a dime of this money -- Gardner and the Amtrak Board are slapping Congress in the face --
In fact - slapping Congress in the face 66 Billion times.

Pres. Bidden should fire these people if they won't spend these Billions, which Congress gave them to improve Amtrak.



 

What happened to all of the DMU regional trians that were "ordered" several years ago?

ronald321 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> By not asking for a dime of this money --
>
>
>
>  

Let’s see the evidence that they are not.

Lackawanna484 - Congress doesn’t really care. The red-state vs blue-state mentality is what will do in the long distance train. It’s the LD trains that service the red states, and they’re the ones that REALLY don’t care. The blue state trains are the corridors, and there is where the money is going to be spent.

Ronald321 - These billions come with strings (conditions) attached. Amtrak may not want to fulfill those conditions or may not be able to.

I think Congress has lots of distractions these past two years, many of which are frankly more urgent to most constituents than LD trains.

I've said it before, but I think Amtrak's woes stem more from managerial incompetency and institutional/bureaucratic politics than a cynical conspiracy to destroy the LD network—but that's not to say such incompetency could significantly affect routes Amtrak leadership cares least about. As a federal employee in "the swamp," I've seen firsthand how such incompetency/politicy/bureaucracy gets in the way of providing decent service.

Looking forward to my trip on the SW Chief later this month. Hopefully won't be my last one.

realistic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Posted: Today

>  There’s only two remaining
> manufacturers of passenger rail cars, both
> European owned. And we have quality issues with
> both.
>

Assuming Bombardier is part of Alstom now (I belive it is), then you have Alstom, Siemens, CAF, Kawasaki, CRRC, Hyundai-Rotem, Stadler, and probably a couple of others.  The CAF Viewliner IIs are quite nice - I wish they could just keep churning those out.

There's certainly an underlying narrative that Amtrak management (and the Board) does not have the drive, desire, or motivation to operate the long distance network as it currently exists. It feels like they are begrudgingly trying to just "meander" through the LD service - premised by the fact that they were given direct orders by Congress to reinstate daily service on LD service. Had that decree not come from Congress, we'd just be talking about NEC ops and state-sponsored corridors. The refurb program on the Superliners has been sidelined. There's labor issues and a contraction in the labor market in general out there. Amtrak's taking the options that come easy and not confronting the harder issues when it comes to LD operations and the present environment they are in. There's no express plans on what Amtrak plans to do with its LD system - Amtrak's remained relatively quiet on LD train network ops. All business lines should be operated with success in mind, but overall it seems that the LD network gets the short-end of the stick. There's just very little passion to make it succeed. At this point, if Amtrak can't operate the LD network successfully - perhaps they should retire it. Equipment issues, capacity issues, onboard staffing issues, with little drive to try and fix it or bring about some positive solutions. Amtrak may be waiting for another shoe to drop - who knows. At the same token, if the LD system is retired, I'm not sure if the Amtrak organization/structure then makes sense or not. It should probably morph to more control and operations being handled by the States, with less control and overhead by the traditional Amtrak structure. National political support would be stymied if Amtrak dropped the LD routes it has left. And as a result of more state supported trains, it would seem Amtrak would emerge as a smaller force and organization. Many of the new US CONNECT corridors relegates Amtrak to what a state commuter railroad should do. But Amtrak can be used for a few years as a vehicle to get to the money that's needed to develop the corridor. So if LD network goes away, there's a LOT of other things Amtrak would need to transform and likely delegate out. They'd be a much smaller organization 

fooshie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Congress has lots of distractions these
> past two years, many of which are frankly more
> urgent to most constituents than LD trains.
>

and unfortunately, i think you are right.  

i would sure like to see amtrak spend this:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amtrak-ceo-outlines-plans-spending-66-billion-infrastructure-funding-rcna4786

i know they have received new power but have any of these $BILLIONS been spent YET to maintain, improve or order new passenger cars? 

66







 

I've heard this scenario before and part of me can believe it, but the only way the LD Trains would be eleminated is the 180 day notices, unless that arrives, the so called writing on the wall isn't gonna scare me, but until they get better leadership in Ammanagment, it'll keep getting worse and worse, but their corridor plan isn't gaining much traction either!

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/22 18:25 by ProAmtrak.

PRR1361 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What happened to all of the DMU regional trians
> that were "ordered" several years ago?

What DMU's????? I've never heard about that.

ProAmtrak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've heard 5his scenario before and part of me can
> believe it, but the only way the LD Trains would
> be 3leminated is the 180 day notices, 7nless 5hat
> arrives, the so called writing on the wall isn't
> gonna scare me, but until they get better
> leadership in Ammanagment, it'll keep getting
> worse and worse, but their corridor plan isn't
> gaining much traction either!
>
> Posted from Android

They can’t even run corridors right. The new run through Chicago to St. Louis to Kansas City train is a complete disaster. AVERAGE arrival at KC past 60 days is 1:40 late! These clowns need new management pronto. Does anybody at Amtrak headquarters think this is remotely acceptable performance? If I was Missouri I would not be subsidizing such a pathetic operation.

Posted from iPhone

realistic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Posted:
>
> Sad part is the American traveling public won’t
> miss the service. There are countless cities with
> no Amtrak service and they’ve been getting along
> without it for 50 plus years!
>
>

I thought you were going to say those communities have gotten along FINE without passenger rail service for 50 years-and I would say that they have not. They have had to look for alternatives, but that is not fine.
In looking back, I can see the thought process in the early decades that Amtrak was supposed to die off, however in the last couple of decades it should be abundantly clear that we need a national railroad passenger railroad to get people around the nation. We are a population that is larger and travels more than ever before. Airlines are not serving the nation- only big cities. The interstates are clogged and dangerous. Many people would choose not to drive or fly if they had an alternative on the rails. The fact that as the traveling need has increased, Amtrak has been contracting and contracting. Why is that? My answer is incompetence. The people making decisions do not understand rail travel. Period.

Posted from Android

I'm fine with dismantling the LD system as long as it's replaced by a collection of corridor routes. For example, goodbye to the Crescent, hello to Atlanta-Greenville-Charlotte and Atlanta-Savannah... both in the daytime, no sleepers and cafe service only. 

ctillnc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm fine with dismantling the LD system as long as
> it's replaced by a collection of corridor routes.
> For example, goodbye to the Crescent, hello to
> Atlanta-Greenville-Charlotte and
> Atlanta-Savannah... both in the daytime, no
> sleepers and cafe service only. 

Corridor routes won't get one from one corridor to another, like Washington or Charlottesville to Greenville or Atlanta. Some people do travel by train over 300 miles, or even under that will not neatly isolate themselves to artificial corridor boundaries, not by Greyhound, nor by plane. Richard Anderson was too dumb to comprehend that and got major rebellions from Congress. 

What you want is dependent on state funding for all operating and capital costs that won't happen, especially from Red states, and paying ransoms to Class I's that won't happen. You also forget the peak load point of many LD trains is the overnight portion, like Washington - Atlanta and Pittsburgh - Chicago. Sleepers are what improve their farebox recovery. Diners are the least of it.  Rather silly to make an issue on diners when the capital cost of Charlotte - Atlanta corridor is $2 billion. 



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/22 05:37 by joemvcnj.