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Passenger Trains > Caltrans Orders Stadler Hydrogen Trainsets


Date: 09/21/22 09:36
Caltrans Orders Stadler Hydrogen Trainsets
Author: milepost20

Caltrans has ordered four hydrogen multiple unit trainsets for intercity service
from Stadler with an option for 25 more.  The announcement was made at the Innotrans
Trade Fair currently taking place in Berlin.  From today's Railway Age:

https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/intercity/california-orders-29-hydrogen-trains-for-inter-city-services/?RAchannel=home

These will be four car sets--a longer version of the two car set built for the San
Berdardino-Redlands service now on display in Berlin.  The article specifically
mentions the trains being assigned to Merced to Sacramento runs.  Altamont Corridor 
Express is proposed to begin service between Sacramento and Ceres in 2024 with an
extension to Merced coming within 2-3 years.  These new trains are to be delivered by
2027.

Photo from Stadler shows the San Bernardino County train on display in Berlin followed
by maps of the infrastructure upgrades to the full Sacramento to Merced route.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/22 10:07 by milepost20.








Date: 09/21/22 12:49
Re: Caltrans Orders Stadler Hydrogen Trainsets
Author: zorz

Interesting! So, this would be on the former WP main line for most of the way, providing a more local service between Sacramento and further south.

I've heard a lot recently about the performance of the Stadler HFC trains - they're doing very well in service and have been aggressively selling at Innotrans. Good to see some new service coming.



Date: 09/21/22 13:11
Re: Caltrans Orders Stadler Hydrogen Trainsets
Author: webmaster

I don't think hydrogen powered equipement should be purchased until they come up with a solution for the gas shortages. Three years ago I came close to pulling the trigger on a lease for a Honda Clarity fuel cell car until I learned that most of these cars were parked because there wasn't enough hydrogen to go around. Three years later in googling the term "hydrogen shortage" I see this problem continues to plague the technology. We might have some shiny new trains that will stay that way for years because there is no reliable source of fuel to operate them.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com



Date: 09/21/22 13:47
Re: Caltrans Orders Stadler Hydrogen Trainsets
Author: wjpyper

What ever power they use, I hope they come up with a different paint scheme. The one pictured is just plain silly looking.
Bill Pyper
Lacey, WA
 



Date: 09/21/22 14:09
Re: Caltrans Orders Stadler Hydrogen Trainsets
Author: milepost20

zorz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I've heard a lot recently about the performance of
> the Stadler HFC trains - they're doing very well
> in service and have been aggressively selling at
> Innotrans. Good to see some new service coming.

Alstom, one of Stadler's competitors in the European market, so far seems to have the 
edge in the hydrogen-powered train market.  The first commercial passenger carrying
HMU's(hydrogen multiple-units) recently entered service centered on Bremerhaven west
of Hamburg in Germany.  These are Alstom products and one recently went on tour
and went 1175 km between refuelings.  Identical units will go into service in December
on Frankfurt suburban services.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/22 14:11 by milepost20.






Date: 09/21/22 15:11
Re: Caltrans Orders Stadler Hydrogen Trainsets
Author: PHall

webmaster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think hydrogen powered equipement should
> be purchased until they come up with a solution
> for the gas shortages. Three years ago I came
> close to pulling the trigger on a lease for a
> Honda Clarity fuel cell car until I learned that
> most of these cars were parked because there
> wasn't enough hydrogen to go around. Three years
> later in googling the term "hydrogen shortage" I
> see this problem continues to plague the
> technology. We might have some shiny new trains
> that will stay that way for years because there is
> no reliable source of fuel to operate them.

Plenty of Hydrogen available at the City of Riverside Alternative Fuels facility. They have 8 CNG pumps, 2 Propane and a Hydrogen pump.
And being city owned they're not trying to make a profit, just to cover their expenses.
I thought that Honda had a Hydrogen fueling facility down in the South Bay next to the old Honda HQ.



Date: 09/21/22 15:57
Re: Caltrans Orders Stadler Hydrogen Trainsets
Author: webmaster

PHall Wrote:

> Plenty of Hydrogen available at the City of
> Riverside Alternative Fuels facility. 

Over the past five years hydrogen stations run out of fuel because the producers can't always delivery gas.  Earlier this year the weather service had to curtail launching weather balloons because of hydrogren shortages on the east coast. Riverside like every other station runs out of gas leaving drivers struggling to find other sources.

 

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com



Date: 09/22/22 01:53
Re: Caltrans Orders Stadler Hydrogen Trainsets
Author: GP25

I haven't seen Hydrogen doing too well for buses and other local transit related vehicles.
Many of the buses I know of, had been sidelined for a while. Then scrapped or sold back
to the Manufacture. Like this Burbank Bus that had a possum living in it.
This photo was back in 2015.

Jerry Martin
Los Angeles, CA
Central Coast Railroad Festival




Date: 09/22/22 05:14
Re: Caltrans Orders Stadler Hydrogen Trainsets
Author: robj

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> webmaster Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't think hydrogen powered equipement
> should
> > be purchased until they come up with a solution
> > for the gas shortages. Three years ago I came
> > close to pulling the trigger on a lease for a
> > Honda Clarity fuel cell car until I learned
> that
> > most of these cars were parked because there
> > wasn't enough hydrogen to go around. Three
> years
> > later in googling the term "hydrogen shortage"
> I
> > see this problem continues to plague the
> > technology. We might have some shiny new trains
> > that will stay that way for years because there
> is
> > no reliable source of fuel to operate them.
>
> Plenty of Hydrogen available at the City of
> Riverside Alternative Fuels facility. They have 8
> CNG pumps, 2 Propane and a Hydrogen pump.
> And being city owned they're not trying to make a
> profit, just to cover their expenses.
> I thought that Honda had a Hydrogen fueling
> facility down in the South Bay next to the old
> Honda HQ.

I have no special knowledge of this facility and how it is run but just because it is city run does not mean it just tries to cover expenses.

ie city water departemnts, city permitting, city impounds toll roads etc etc

Bob



Date: 09/22/22 08:22
Re: Caltrans Orders Stadler Hydrogen Trainsets
Author: Jrudnicki

I'm not certain of the California infrastructure plans, but you can generate hydrogen on site as some facilities do. All you need is electricity and air. 



Date: 09/22/22 12:50
Re: Caltrans Orders Stadler Hydrogen Trainsets
Author: TomG

Jrudnicki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not certain of the California infrastructure
> plans, but you can generate hydrogen on site as
> some facilities do. All you need is electricity
> and air. 

And once again we circle back to where is all this extra electricity going to come from. I can't imagine why people didn't want to ride the Hindenbus. Maybe they shouldn't have advertised it on the side in such large obvious lettering.

Tom
Weaverville, CA



Date: 09/22/22 22:43
Re: Caltrans Orders Stadler Hydrogen Trainsets
Author: bradleymckay

webmaster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PHall Wrote:
>
> > Plenty of Hydrogen available at the City of
> > Riverside Alternative Fuels facility. 
>
> Over the past five years hydrogen stations run out
> of fuel because the producers can't always
> delivery gas.  Earlier this year the weather
> service had to curtail launching weather balloons
> because of hydrogren shortages on the east coast.
> Riverside like every other station runs out of gas
> leaving drivers struggling to find other sources.

Todd for what its worth see here:

 https://www.triplepundit.com/story/2021/plug-power-green-hydrogen/728856

Allen



Date: 09/23/22 05:11
Re: Caltrans Orders Stadler Hydrogen Trainsets
Author: engineerinvirginia

robj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PHall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > webmaster Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I don't think hydrogen powered equipement
> > should
> > > be purchased until they come up with a
> solution
> > > for the gas shortages. Three years ago I came
> > > close to pulling the trigger on a lease for a
> > > Honda Clarity fuel cell car until I learned
> > that
> > > most of these cars were parked because there
> > > wasn't enough hydrogen to go around. Three
> > years
> > > later in googling the term "hydrogen
> shortage"
> > I
> > > see this problem continues to plague the
> > > technology. We might have some shiny new
> trains
> > > that will stay that way for years because
> there
> > is
> > > no reliable source of fuel to operate them.
> >
> > Plenty of Hydrogen available at the City of
> > Riverside Alternative Fuels facility. They have
> 8
> > CNG pumps, 2 Propane and a Hydrogen pump.
> > And being city owned they're not trying to make
> a
> > profit, just to cover their expenses.
> > I thought that Honda had a Hydrogen fueling
> > facility down in the South Bay next to the old
> > Honda HQ.
>
> I have no special knowledge of this facility and
> how it is run but just because it is city run does
> not mean it just tries to cover expenses.
>
> ie city water departemnts, city permitting, city
> impounds toll roads etc etc
>
> Bob

I've worked in government service...at state level and no you cannot make profit...the department I worked in could control its expenses well, if we ended the fiscal year in the black we had to give our exess to a department that was forever broke. on the whole we bother covered our butts. And user rates (water and wastewater depts) were stable the whole time I was there...by the time I hired out on the railroad regulations were getting tighter and rates had to rise....I moved to a different locality where I could have a well and septic tank. 



Date: 09/23/22 17:12
Re: Caltrans Orders Stadler Hydrogen Trainsets
Author: Lackawanna484

Siemens Mobility recently ordered hydrogen fuel cell units from Ballard Power.

Seven train sets worth, with options for 20 more.

Posted from Android



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