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Passenger Trains > Caltrain's DTX Project Comes in at a Cool $6.7 Billion


Date: 01/21/23 11:30
Caltrain's DTX Project Comes in at a Cool $6.7 Billion
Author: milepost20

DTX = Downtown Extension.  Caltrain and Bay Area transit planners have long dreamed of extending
Caltrain from its 4th & Townsend terminal in San Francisco to the site of the old Transbay
Terminal, now the Salesforce Transit Center.  The 1.3 mile extension would bring Caltrain directly 
into the financial district and give future California HSR a true downtown terminal.

As might be expected project costs have escalated to an estimated $6.7 billion with completion
not before 2032.  As stated in the link below: At $5.15 billion per mile of new track, the Caltrain
undertaking is now runner-up for the world’s most costly transit project, behind New York’s 
notoriously pricey East Side Access project, according to a database at New York University.

From todays' San Jose Mercury News:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/01/21/new-6-7-billion-price-tag-makes-caltrains-sf-extension-among-costliest-in-the-world/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/23 11:34 by milepost20.




Date: 01/21/23 12:24
Re: Caltrain's DTX Project Comes in at a Cool $6.7 Billion
Author: PasadenaSub

Terrible idea.  At 1.3 miles away from the financial district with enough light rail in the vicinity, Caltrain 4th and King is close enough.  In New York City, Penn Station is 3.3 miles away, and Grand Central Terminal is about 3.5 - with most, if not all workday commuters arriving into Manhattan by train taking a subway for their final leg to work in the financial district (PATH would be the exception).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/23 12:57 by PasadenaSub.



Date: 01/21/23 12:36
Re: Caltrain's DTX Project Comes in at a Cool $6.7 Billion
Author: livesteamer

A truly outrageous amount of taxpayer dollars to spend on 1.3 miles.  What a waste!

Marty Harrison
Knob Noster, MO



Date: 01/21/23 13:20
Re: Caltrain's DTX Project Comes in at a Cool $6.7 Billion
Author: pdt

Its a lot less money than elon wasted buying twitter.    Maybe they can talk him into footing the bill....name it the Elon Musk rail extension, and give him a free lifetime rail pass.    Or maybe let him say that it was built by his "boring company", so he can save face concerning that boodogle.



Date: 01/21/23 15:50
Re: Caltrain's DTX Project Comes in at a Cool $6.7 Billion
Author: SanDiegan

Just run the EMU's on the surface and save billions. But, this is California where cost is no concern.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/23 15:53 by SanDiegan.



Date: 01/21/23 17:27
Re: Caltrain's DTX Project Comes in at a Cool $6.7 Billion
Author: goduckies

pdt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its a lot less money than elon wasted buying
> twitter.    Maybe they can talk him into
> footing the bill....name it the Elon Musk rail
> extension, and give him a free lifetime rail
> pass.    Or maybe let him say that it was built
> by his "boring company", so he can save face
> concerning that boodogle.

His money vs public

Posted from Android



Date: 01/21/23 17:28
Re: Caltrain's DTX Project Comes in at a Cool $6.7 Billion
Author: goduckies

SanDiegan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just run the EMU's on the surface and save
> billions. But, this is California where cost is no
> concern.

Exactly and they just put in the new T line... no reason to spend this.

Posted from Android



Date: 01/21/23 17:52
Re: Caltrain's DTX Project Comes in at a Cool $6.7 Billion
Author: PHall

livesteamer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A truly outrageous amount of taxpayer dollars to
> spend on 1.3 miles.  What a waste!

Through a very heavily developed area. Even using eminent domain it won't be cheap to buy that land.



Date: 01/21/23 22:59
Re: Caltrain's DTX Project Comes in at a Cool $6.7 Billion
Author: WP921

Why is this dumbness being allowed to happen?  What a catastrophic waste of transportation dollars.



Date: 01/22/23 00:36
Re: Caltrain's DTX Project Comes in at a Cool $6.7 Billion
Author: ts1457

And then, looks like they are teeing up new transbay tunnels.

 



Date: 01/22/23 05:23
Re: Caltrain's DTX Project Comes in at a Cool $6.7 Billion
Author: jcaestecker

Pocket change when compared to the so-called Bullet Train.  Most taxpayers won't care, but more than a few smart ones will.  And they'll leave.  Been there, done that.

-John



Date: 01/22/23 14:04
Re: Caltrain's DTX Project Comes in at a Cool $6.7 Billion
Author: cchan006

PasadenaSub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Terrible idea.  At 1.3 miles away from the
> financial district with enough light rail in the
> vicinity, Caltrain 4th and King is close enough.

BART to SFO extension folks planned ahead with a convenient Caltrain/BART connection at Millbrae for Caltrain (and even the hypothetical CA HSR) passengers to go straight into San Francisco's financial district via BART.

That's in addition to the decent MUNI light rail connections at 4th & King. to go downtown that you mentioned.

In Japan, the newer Shinkansen (HSR) lines to/from the north terminating away from Tokyo (at Omiya, then Ueno) created a huge and intolerable congestion on the Yamanote Loop Line for people wanting to reach Tokyo Station. Two major reconstruction projects (Shinkansen extention to Tokyo, then "reconnection" of non-HSR lines between Tokyo and Ueno) were performed to make the congestion tolerable. SF has no such congestion problem to solve, not even close.

San Francisco is surrounded by water on 3 sides, and a narrow Peninsula to the south, so I don't see enough land mass available to create population growth to justify the DTX Project... until both BART and Light Rail trains are filled near 200% capacity (standing room only on ALL trains with 2-3 minute headways). Maybe local civic planners should think about rail transit across the Golden Gate first?
 



Date: 01/22/23 17:12
Re: Caltrain's DTX Project Comes in at a Cool $6.7 Billion
Author: PHall

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe local civic planners should think about rail transit
> across the Golden Gate first?
>  

That would be nice, if the bridge had been designed to handle those loads, which it isn't.



Date: 01/22/23 18:51
Re: Caltrain's DTX Project Comes in at a Cool $6.7 Billion
Author: cchan006

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That would be nice, if the bridge had been
> designed to handle those loads, which it isn't.

It isn't because there's emotional attachment to the Golden Gate Bridge. Entire eastern span of the Bay Bridge was torn down, so I'm sure if civil engineers wanted to, they can find a way to do it... at a cost which can be figured out, handed to a low bid contractor, then be completed with a cost overrun.



Date: 01/22/23 21:41
Re: Caltrain's DTX Project Comes in at a Cool $6.7 Billion
Author: TAW

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PHall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> then be completed with a
> cost overrun.

Has cost overrun become a line item in estimates and budgets yet?

TAW



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